Armored or Not- what makes you a Knight?

[Sir Edward]

I thought long and well about that very question many years ago. What makes a knight. One could argue that knightly behavior makes a knight, or title from a lord, perhaps even his wealth and armor.  Imyself have my own formulated opinion.

A knight is someone who shines like a beacon, someone who stands for his beliefs and stands for others even when no one will stand with him. A knight strives to be temprent in judgement, yet is not afraid to hand down punishment for injustice. A knight needs no reason to do good, and makes a point to show kindness and understanding to those less fortunate then himself.

Knightly behavior, Charity, Honor, Hospitality, Courtesy, Integrity, these intangible virtues are paramount to knightly behavior. A knight needs to always be aware of his actions, how they reflect on himself and his peers and lord. I could continue but I believe my point is made. A knight is a combination of inborn ability and learned behavior.

That is an excellent answer, Lord Tristin.

I've seen a wide range of answers to this sort of question over the years, and there are many descriptions, with a lot of overlap. Some people/groups put a different amount of emphasis on different aspects. For instance, the chivalry section on the AA has had discussions about which of the knightly virtues is the most important. Something that comes up a lot there is renown and prowess. While personally, I think in the modern day these aren't the most important, there is some good historical context for these.

In my mind, honor and integrity are paramount, and a willingness to do what is right, simply because it is right, even if no one is looking.

[Lord Dane]

Seconded. Well worded, Lord Tristin. You & I shall share much in the way of words on this forum I think.

[Joshua Santana]

I've seen a wide range of answers to this sort of question over the years, and there are many descriptions, with a lot of overlap. Some people/groups put a different amount of emphasis on different aspects. For instance, the chivalry section on the AA has had discussions about which of the knightly virtues is the most important. Something that comes up a lot there is renown and prowess. While personally, I think in the modern day these aren't the most important, there is some good historical context for these.

In my mind, honor and integrity are paramount, and a willingness to do what is right, simply because it is right, even if no one is looking.

Agreed Sr Edward. 

[Corvus]

I believe that the essence of a Knight comes from within; from their heart and spirit, and from without when they are recognized by others for their deeds.

In the world from which I hail there is a saying, penned by the Heathen author Eric Wodening, which says; "We are our deeds."

I will add to this by saying that my late grandfather used to remark: "A Warrior is a living balance: A mixture of strength, wisdom and proper humility."

I sincerely believe this as well.

[Sir Brian]

I thought long and well about that very question many years ago. What makes a knight. One could argue that knightly behavior makes a knight, or title from a lord, perhaps even his wealth and armor.  Imyself have my own formulated opinion.

A knight is someone who shines like a beacon, someone who stands for his beliefs and stands for others even when no one will stand with him. A knight strives to be temprent in judgement, yet is not afraid to hand down punishment for injustice. A knight needs no reason to do good, and makes a point to show kindness and understanding to those less fortunate then himself.

Knightly behavior, Charity, Honor, Hospitality, Courtesy, Integrity, these intangible virtues are paramount to knightly behavior. A knight needs to always be aware of his actions, how they reflect on himself and his peers and lord. I could continue but I believe my point is made. A knight is a combination of inborn ability and learned behavior.

Well stated Lord Tristin. I had purposely refrained from commenting in this discussion for I had not been able to muster up the appropriate solitude and tranquility often needed to contemplate upon such an encompassing, sincere and introspective question, for it truly is a soul searching question. Thank you Lord Tristin for putting into words that which I consider sacred yet have not been able to aptly convey into words. Well done! 

[Lord Dane]

Seconded, Sir Brian. Excellent words Lord Tristin.

[Lord Tristin]

Thank you for your kind words Sir Brian. I strive to take my time when formulating my words. Occasionally I will speak out of turn but I strive to change that about myself.

[Corvus]

Thinking before speaking or acting is a fine discipline I think.
Well said, Tristin

[B. Patricius]

I have to agree with Lord Tristan.

I've met many "knights" who were anything BUT knightly.  I think that is what drew me to this forum where I actually registered instead of just "creeping around" and gathering research for my own means.  Here is a place where although, we all have differing opinions on what makes a "knight" at the same time, they are all very similar as well.

I can't help but also think of that scene in "Knight's Tale" and the whole movie in general.  The language and music, even the costumes that you would think are accurate are not.  Historically.  But anthropologically speaking, resounding to the "human condition" as we like to call it, Yes, "Knight's Tale" is incredibly anthropologically correct. 

Being a knight is not worn with a belt, even though it definitely adds to it
Being a knight is not a given when one has the most EPIC of kit, though it definitely adds to that person's presence.
I'm thinking of another movie now, a Marvel one, where the weakest of the group was in fact the strongest.  To be knightly, isn't born, made, or trained.  It's earned.  The ability to lay down your life, to risk it all for the betterment of others, like those people in Boston, who were just "civilians" as Corvus put it, THEY are knightly.

Or, as a dear friend of mine said, before he passed from his injuries, "no regrets."  Would my friend consider himself a hero? I doubt it.  He was "just doing his job," in direct disregard of the tridents embedded in his coffin, the start of a sad tradition of my generation, the cigars and coins left at his grave, or the medal of honor hung at his neck. Going out of the way, and doing the extraordinary, "tilting when they should draw," THAT is knightly.

The rest of us?  We're just continually striving, excelling, and struggling, along the path.

[Joshua Santana]

I've met many "knights" who were anything BUT knightly.  I think that is what drew me to this forum where I actually registered instead of just "creeping around" and gathering research for my own means.  Here is a place where although, we all have differing opinions on what makes a "knight" at the same time, they are all very similar as well.

I can't help but also think of that scene in "Knight's Tale" and the whole movie in general.  The language and music, even the costumes that you would think are accurate are not.  Historically.  But anthropologically speaking, resounding to the "human condition" as we like to call it, Yes, "Knight's Tale" is incredibly anthropologically correct. 

Being a knight is not worn with a belt, even though it definitely adds to it
Being a knight is not a given when one has the most EPIC of kit, though it definitely adds to that person's presence.
I'm thinking of another movie now, a Marvel one, where the weakest of the group was in fact the strongest.  To be knightly, isn't born, made, or trained.  It's earned.  The ability to lay down your life, to risk it all for the betterment of others, like those people in Boston, who were just "civilians" as Corvus put it, THEY are knightly.

Or, as a dear friend of mine said, before he passed from his injuries, "no regrets."  Would my friend consider himself a hero? I doubt it.  He was "just doing his job," in direct disregard of the tridents embedded in his coffin, the start of a sad tradition of my generation, the cigars and coins left at his grave, or the medal of honor hung at his neck. Going out of the way, and doing the extraordinary, "tilting when they should draw," THAT is knightly.

The rest of us?  We're just continually striving, excelling, and struggling, along the path.

Hear! Hear! Hear!  Well spoken B. Patricius!

[Corvus]

I have to agree with Lord Tristan.

I've met many "knights" who were anything BUT knightly.  I think that is what drew me to this forum where I actually registered instead of just "creeping around" and gathering research for my own means.  Here is a place where although, we all have differing opinions on what makes a "knight" at the same time, they are all very similar as well.

I can't help but also think of that scene in "Knight's Tale" and the whole movie in general.  The language and music, even the costumes that you would think are accurate are not.  Historically.  But anthropologically speaking, resounding to the "human condition" as we like to call it, Yes, "Knight's Tale" is incredibly anthropologically correct. 

Being a knight is not worn with a belt, even though it definitely adds to it
Being a knight is not a given when one has the most EPIC of kit, though it definitely adds to that person's presence.
I'm thinking of another movie now, a Marvel one, where the weakest of the group was in fact the strongest.  To be knightly, isn't born, made, or trained.  It's earned.  The ability to lay down your life, to risk it all for the betterment of others, like those people in Boston, who were just "civilians" as Corvus put it, THEY are knightly.

Or, as a dear friend of mine said, before he passed from his injuries, "no regrets."  Would my friend consider himself a hero? I doubt it.  He was "just doing his job," in direct disregard of the tridents embedded in his coffin, the start of a sad tradition of my generation, the cigars and coins left at his grave, or the medal of honor hung at his neck. Going out of the way, and doing the extraordinary, "tilting when they should draw," THAT is knightly.

The rest of us?  We're just continually striving, excelling, and struggling, along the path.

This is very inspiring, bro.

[B. Patricius]

Corvus,  Joshua, thank you for your kind words.    It's an honor to be here, and contribute where I can, when I can.

YIS

B. Patricius

PS

throughout my young life, 8 years old on, I was raised with Honor, Courage and Commitment.

Now, I'm "retired" and I'm still trying to get used to that.

So now, I have a new "Ethos" - ~Officium-Honestas-Sacrificium~  latin for (I hope, googled it so if it's wrong please tell me) Duty, Honor, Sacrifice

and my friend who said "no regrets"
here's a link to another thread where I posted more about him
http://modernchivalry.org/forum/index.php/topic,2435.0.html

and if I'm being too sappy, I've been up for almost 48 hours.  the half-pint needs a regular schedule, even if Meg (my lady) cannot because of a work FUBAR for this week.  So yeah, taking care of both ATM.  It's an excuse, and a poor one, but it's what I've got. 

[Lord Dane]

Being 'knightly' is like being 'noble'. It is not a title given but more a recognition of traits or action that make one so. We all know the traits of chivalry and good virtue that one seeks to be knightly. But which ones really define a person as knightly??

For me, that's easy...
Selflessness - giving everything of yourself including up to sacrificing one's life for a greater good in service to another or others
Faith - being virtuous and exemplifying pious behavior in a manner reflective of religious ideal that makes one a shining example to others in both word and action; having conviction in your beliefs that coincides in both your words and actions without being hypocritical or deceptive
Honor - upholding your virtues with fervent fortitude and nobility
Prudence - acting reasonably under circumstances that exhibit rational thought and sound judgment without engaging in senseless acts based upon lack of knowledge and emotion
Wisdom - expressing rational thought and sound judgment in making decisions that exercise fairness in all situations

But that's just my interpretation of what makes someone knightly in my eyes above other virtues. These ironically are the divine virtues of justice.

[B. Patricius]

Very well said, Lord Dane.  And my prayers go out to your brother in arms in Mass.  Happy hunting and stay frosty.

YIS
B. Patricius

[Lord Dane]

Hunting is over for me (least in this case). Back to bed. Give your condolences & prayers to M.I.T. Police who will be burying one of theirs next week.   Thoughts mean alot. Transit Police shot will survive and recover.