Scale Armor

[Ian]

Nice find Sir Ulrich, here's another example I just came across, German, Late 13th C, known as the Sleeping Guard.  I would almost call these a 'Surcoat of Plates' haha

Here's a thread on someone reproducing something similar:
http://www.myarmoury.com/talk/viewtopic.php?t=26423&start=0&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=

[Sir Ulrich]

That actually doesnt look like it would be that hard to make. Just need a seamstress to make me a durable surcoat and I could probably cut polish drill and peen the plates onto the surcoat myself with the use of a hammer. Theres no overlapping either which makes it even easier. Just need a source for iron plate.

[Sir James A]

That's pretty interesting. Always fun to learn something new!

[Sir Wolf]

hey i have one of those. i just never put it together.shell is done, plates are cut and punched.
i think that the plates may indeed be vertical. and that they are overlapped. i am wondering though that each plate may indeed have a curve to them.  thats why i stopped making mine. i got all over analytical on it and it went on the back burner. I may jsut bring it out of retirement if I can get my shopped cleaned up. lol. they sell a pattern you can buy for the surcoat/coat of plates part to make it easier. i just used heavy duck cloth from wal mart since this was an if it project. http://www.ebay.com/itm/Medieval-Military-Garments-S-XL-Period-Patterns-Sewing-Pattern-102-SCA-LARP-/360494098362?_trksid=p3284.m263&_trkparms=algo%3DSIC%26its%3DI%26itu%3DUCI%252BIA%252BUA%252BFICS%252BUFI%26otn%3D21%26pmod%3D290840012504%26ps%3D54 like this period patterns 102 has the surcoat

[Sir William]

I remember Lloyd Clark over on AA talking about making an armored surcoat once...this is probably what he had in mind.  The material would probably need to be duck canvas, something durable enough that could stand the weight of the plates w/out losing its own rigidity.  Do you think there might have been those using a leather base?

I like the idea of a curved plate, Sir Wolf...I imagine it would've been more comfortable to wear against the body than flat, unyielding plate.

[Thorsteinn]

On the subject of scale:

http://video.pbs.org/video/2330357518

Egyptian Armor with Mike Loades.

[Sir William]

Ulrich, there was a guy who was getting rid of a number of scales...I think they sold but it would've been a nice start for you if you were really interested in going this route.  I happen to like the look of scale armor, it just happens to be older than the timeline I'm working in.

[Sir Ulrich]

I think if I do scale armor I am gonna go with leather, just to keep the weight down. Seeing how it can still stop an arrow even when being leather like in that video made me realize leather armor is actually effective. A coat of plates would weigh more and would be heavier, I am thinking scale may be more practical as well as double for something viking age. Or I could go with lamellar which is probably easier, I've seen that sold cheap too for like 180.

[Thorsteinn]

I think Torvaldr of Skaldic.com is still selling leather scale.

[Sir Wolf]

it really wouldnt have been "leather" like we think of it. it would have been more of a hardened rawhide. and the weight will resemble the COP due to all of the overlapping and rivets.

[Sir James A]

it really wouldnt have been "leather" like we think of it. it would have been more of a hardened rawhide. and the weight will resemble the COP due to all of the overlapping and rivets.

Yep, what Sir Wolf said. Hardened leather is boiled and sometimes mixed with .. beeswax I think? .. been many years since I looked into it, but it's saturated with something else and it adds to the weight.

[Sir Wolf]

beeswax is only for the waterproofing.

[SirNathanQ]

To get the same protection value, steel is honestly your lightest and most efficient option. That's why it was used. And asofar as quibbling with the dates of the Visby find (1361), that style of COP was viable for use until around the early 14th century, considering the "armour lag" that styles took getting all the way to the Baltic.
If you are going to start throwing additional protection in top of your maille when your persona is in "The Age of Maille", I'm assuming you're doing it for protective value in combat. Cause let's face it, maille kinda sucks at absorbing all the blunt trauma we face (being literally the only threat we face, unless something has gone horribly, horribly wrong) and I will use every piece of rigid armour I can justify. From a practical (not getting hurt) standpoint, the Visby style is awesome. I've worn it in combat, and it has awesome movement, and it protects very well.

[Sir James A]

beeswax is only for the waterproofing.

Ah, so it's the boiling that gives it the rigidity, thanks!

[Sir Wolf]

yupyup. I've made some scale suits in the past. the water boiling is what makes the leather hard. it boils out all of the air from the pockets in the leather making it dense. lol don't leave your bees-waxed suit in the car during summer, ewh I've heard the horror stories on how it melted out of the suits.

Ulrick you are looking at 12-15 oz leather thats about to over 1/4 inch thick. all that over lapping is just gonna weigh you down. a COP is going to be more period and lighter. 18 gauge.