jolly knight

[John]

I have a pullover gambeson, from GDFB. I have also worn a gambeson with metal buckles on the front. I've worn them with butted maille. Snagging was not an issue. More important is:-

1) Does the gambeson allow you to raise your arms above your head, easily? It's hard to tell from the photos on Jolly Knight's armoury what type of armhole they have. I've slit open the underside of the armhole on my gambeson to make it easier to raise my arms. So ask if their gambesons have an exaggerated armhole, or 'le grande assiette sleeve'. See http://www.revivalclothing.com/14thcenturylinengambeson.aspx for an example of this type of armhole.
2) Ensure your gambeson is a snug fit, that way your metal armour can be made smaller, and lighter. My pullover gambeson is so snug that I prefer to get someone to help me, rather than spend 5 minutes struggling out of it!

Possibly riveted maille may snag? I've heard that GDFBs dome riveted maille is particularly hard on undergarments, but that their wedge rivets are better. Maybe a case for finding a young squire who's prepared to sit down with a file for half a day.

Jolly Knight tailor make everything. http://jollyknight.com.ua/armoury/conditions.php says "It`s not just a catalogue of commodities which you can get at once, it is a workshop where all of things are executed in size individually for every customer.". On that page is a form for writing down your measurements. They specifically offer a custom gambeson, see http://jollyknight.com.ua/armoury/product_info.php?cPath=23&products_id=88

$150 buckaroos for a gambie seems pretty dinkum to me. The one I got from GDFB was $220, didn't fit, and cost a further $80 to have tailored. A Jolly Knight gambie is on my shopping list. After DBK has made scabbards for a couple of Albions I have on order, and after I buy a helmet from Jolly Knight...

[Sir Ulrich]

Yeah, thats next on my list now that I know it's custom made. Only hope my Icefalcon dome riveted maille doesn't wear it down a ton cause then I'd need a new one. Gonna get the padded chausses as well and that would work, just worries me that I may grow out of it despite being an extremely thin person myself.

[John]

The issue of rivets damaging under garments is one of poor manufacturing quality. My statement about this is only with regard to maille from GDFB, and doesn't necessarily reflect other suppliers. I believe many suppliers, including GDFB get their maille from India, and may therefore be of the same quality. For more on this read what Dan Howard has to say at MyArmoury http://www.myarmoury.com/talk/viewtopic.php?t=19189.

I put it to you that there is noway our ancestors would have accepted having to continuously buy gambesons! Not when a haubergon cost as much as a new midrange car! price statement based on a doco I saw years ago, take with grain of salt

[Sir Ulrich]

My maille is 9MM anyway which is usually lighter and softer on gambesons, it's the 6MM stuff that tends to be rougher on gambesons as well as has more rivets more wear. I would assume a linen gambeson would be more durable than a cotton one though, correct me if I'm wrong.

[John]

Not a scooby doo, mate. I'm guessing that thickness of fibre, and density of weave, are also significant factors. I have patched my GDFB gambeson, most of the damage has been from grappling, but I seldom wear maille. If a $150 gambeson lasts three years, then it has a weekly cost of $1. You can't feed a starving child in a third world country for that! Question is, are you a show pony, or a real man? Perhaps buy two gambies, one for war and one parade.

Expect even high quality equipment to need repair. The prudent modern soldier carries kit to repair his pack and webbing, just on the off chance that they get a hole or two (it's a real downer if you lose your toilet roll because of a hole in your pack). Ancient garments, such as gambesons are no different.

[Sir Brian]

I recently had to stitch close a nice 3" slice on the right shoulder blade section of my WMA gambeson after taking a hit from an aluminum waster that must of had a nasty burr on it. I made sure to use bright red thread so it is prominently shown! 

[John]

I've asked Jolly Knight Armoury a few questions about their gambesons

Hi,

I've been discussing your products with some others on the Modern Chivalry forum at http://modernchivalry.org/forum/index.php?topic=1182.0 based on that I have a few questions about your gambesons.

1) What material is your batting made from?
2) How thick is the batting?
3) What material, and thread count, is used for the outer layer?
4) What material, and thread count, is used for the inner layer?
5) How long does it take you to make one once you've received payment?
6) Do your gambesons have large arm holes, to make it easy for a wearer to lift their arms above their heads?
7) Is the padding thinner on the inside of the elbows, and the armpits, to make it easier to bend those joints?
8) Do you make gambesons with multiple layers of fabric, instead of batting?

I'll post your reply on that forum so that others can see your answers.

Regards,
John

[John]

Here's the response from Jolly Knight Armoury:-

Hello John,

I`m  sorry  for a slow reply, I could not answer earlier. I was away, I visited a small festival not
far from my town.

About your questions:
1)  It`s  hard  for  me  to  answer  to  that question, batting is batting. Here is the picture of it
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=204995109519077&set=a.204994462852475.49696.100000257694138&type=1&theater
2) As a rule it has 3-4 layers but I can change it if you need.
3-4) I use linen for the outer and inner layers.
5)  As  a  rule  it takes 2 weeks on making, But if at the moment I have no materials, manufacturing
takes one or two more weeks due to the need to purchase fabric.
6) It is depends of the customers choice but as a rule all my gambeson have gusset.
7) Yes, the batting has different layers depending on their location.
8)  Sure  I  can make it. So far I have not had experience in making such a cloak, but I hope in the
future I will sew something like that.

Thank you for time and patients.

If you have any questions, I'll always be glad to answer them.

[John]

My gut feeling is that he knows what he is doing. He will make whatever you want, just ask. It would pay to be sure he understands your instructions if you're asking for something unusual. Asking in Ukrainian, or Russian, rather than English will yield best results.

He didn't answer the question about the thread count, I suspect this is a language issue. Very few websites specify the thread count. So it's not a biggie, ymmv. I'm seeking clarification though:-

Hi Alexander,

Thank you for your reply, I've posted it on the forum, where there are a few people interested in your products. I will place a few orders myself, early next year.

What is the thread count of the linen that you use in your gambesons?
I don't have a facebook account, are you able to send me an image of the batting? The reason I ask about batting is that I know it can be made from wool, or cotton, or polyester, any other fibre, and some materials breath better, and have better insulation properties than others.

Regards,
John

[Sir James A]

I think I'm going to talk to him about a set of sabatons. It's hard to find someone who will make sabatons, and those brass-trimmed 14th cent ones look ideal to me. It's going to be a few months before I order, though.

[John]

I have no hard kit, and I too am looking at getting some sabatons. If I'm happy with the workmanship I'll get a complete late 14th century suit from him. The next thing I'd get would be a bascinet, I quite like it that he's prepared to put on a rivetted mail aventail, and he'll be able to supply mutiple visors. I'd get a lightweight, mesh one for 'unarmoured combat', as well having both a pointed snout and a flatter faced visor. For the gauntlets. I'm considering sending over a plaster of paris cast of my hand using a kit like the ones from http://store2.accu-cast.us/index.php. Seems the best way to get gauntlets that fit like a.... glove. It'll be early next year though, I start paying Brian at DBK for a couple scabbards next week.

Is there anyone here who can comment on the visibility, and breathability of various bascinet visors?

Here's Alexander's, from JKA, response to the last email I sent him.

Hello John,

I  saw  your  post  on  the forum. But I`m still not get letter from you about thread count. I don`t
think  I  can answer to that question correct because of  language issue, but I will take few photos
with ruler near linen I have so you can see what thread count it is.

[John]

I've emailed him back:-

Ahov Alexander,

Your English is better than my Ukrainian . I think the Ukrainian word I'm looking for is ниток. Is the outer layer of your gambesons made of a dense, strong linen, or do I need to ask specifically for a high grade linen outer. The reason I ask is that my current gambeson rips easily as the outer is made from a coarse weave.

Diakuju,
John

[John]

Hello John,
Here is the link for the linen and batting I have
https://picasaweb.google.com/armour.bearer.say/fabrick.
--
Best regards,
Jollyknight.Alexander

Alexander has posted 15 photos of his fabric and batting. You can see them by following his link. He's put a bit of time into answering questions, and strikes me as a decent bloke. I'm looking forward to buying from him.

 

[Sir Ulrich]

I am gonna be making 3 purchases from him, the padded chausses, the linen custom gambeson, and the padded coif. Mainly because I just had a duel with my friend in my current gambeson and using my current arming cap and it was HOT as hell... I actually took it off in the middle of fighting because yeah, it's obviously cotton filled with poly and it DOESN'T work for battle... Plus my arming cap is one of those cheap GDFB ones but it was less harsh than the gambeson but I was still sweating a ton from the damn cheap cotton. Gonna make them all at once too because I don't want to pay as much for the shipping >_> which is gonna be high if it's made in the Ukraine.

[John]

Welcome to shopping abroad, mate. Albion quoted $180USD to ship a sword to me! Most American companies charge me about $80 to ship weapons or armour. UK companies seem to have better shipping prices for me. In general it is cheaper for me to import, than to go to a local supplier. Local suppliers have a limited range of swords... that aren't made by Albion. I think you're wise in getting a few items at once. The prices won't change much for each subsequent item. Also given that you're in a country with a large population, your shipping should be better than trying to get something to a tiny island in the South Pacific with 64 million sheep, 4 million of whom think they're human.

I too have a GDFB arming cap. I haven't found heat an issue, but I don't wear it because I look like a baby in it, and I have trouble hearing. I usually wear a beanie. I sweat a lot in my GDFB [glossary]gambie[/glossary] (in fact it's outside in the sun at the moment, drying). But that's good, the evaporating water helps to keep me cool. I do find I have to suck back the water, and have a teaspoon or two of salt, after fighting. My biggest issue is preventing mould, especially in winter when it takes a while for thick garments to dry. I've attached some photos of my post training ritual of drying. I'm not allowed to use the clothesline, or dryer. Apparently my kit stinks.

Something against the GDFB gambies is that their smallest size, a Large, would suit someone 180cm tall, and who's eaten a few pies. You might notice in the photo that I've had the sides taken in, and sewn together two panels of quilting at the front (and back). Now it fits nicely, but I need a helper to take it on and off. I've also cut open the armpits, so I can lift my arms above my head. What I do like about the GDFB gambie is that it does a good job of absorbing hits. $240USD for the gambie, plus $80USD for the local saddlery to do the tailoring. That's $320USD. Gotta be cheaper for me to get a tailor made one from the Ukraine!

Let us know how you find ordering through Jolly Knight, and what you think of your kit when it arrives.