ModernChivalry.org
Main => The Armoury => Topic started by: SirNathanQ on 2011-07-22, 00:28:41
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Here's my Teutonic Knight Kit in it's 1370s mode, with the plate.
(it's definatly a Maille-Geared kit, tight with the plate)
I'll post pictures of earlier flavors when more stuff arrives. By the end of this the kit should work from 1260 to 1410 (with mixing and matching of the pieces)
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More
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And more
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woah that is so cool man.
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Haha, thanks! :D
Just wait till I get the thing finished!
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Wow, that really looks good. I can't wait to see it with all the exchanges. :)
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Yeah, I just placed the order for the padded cuisses to make my cheater chausses! with that done, I'll be able to go 1350s! Then it's the full Wedge-riveted/solid ring hauberk, some tailoring, plate reinforcements, and I've got 3 whole centuries under my belt. (then I've gotta lay low, I promised mum that that would be the end of it till I'm outta the house ;D)
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Nice !!
G
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(then I've gotta lay low, I promised mum that that would be the end of it till I'm outta the house ;D)
...and then all hell breaks loose as Sir Nathan is unleashed unto the world... :)
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Wow...BJ does some awesome work man. I have got to get in touch w/her...fault's all mine, I've been bs'n on the CoA. Why not just have her make me up a tunic and cloak, no arms, right?
How much did the surcoat and cloak run you? Love the matching details at the cloak's hem and the front of the chest.
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Very cool!!
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Well she loves sewing, and she really relishes the challenge of COAs and insignias and such. So take your time, you know? She probaby could make an amazing Templar set up.......Hint Hint...... ::)
And the cloak and curcote together only cost 140.
Hahaha, whenever you see the newscast of some sword-wielding lunatic in a crazy set of robes demanding all the pagans submit while screaming something about a certain Von Gotesmund, you'll know I'm out of the house..... :P
I'll shoot you all a PM before I officially start my crusade though, don't worry ;D
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I think I'm all set for Templar/Crusader regalia...but who knows, maybe a Marshal surcoat?
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ahhh, now that would be cool.
But you never see any of the super-long surcoats that were around during the Templar's heyday.
Hey, a Templar mantle? ;)
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I dunno...both of mine are long enough...but who knows, we shall see. What I do not have is a Teutonic ensemble like you and Sir Brian. ;)
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I dunno...both of mine are long enough...but who knows, we shall see. What I do not have is a Teutonic ensemble like you and Sir Brian. ;)
Yes Sir William, come to the Dark Side....
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Yeah, common, unlike the other orders, we've got over 4 centuries of Crusading kits to cover!
You knowwww you wanna ;D
And Sir Brian also has one? Woah, would that make us the largest military order presence within the Order of the Marshal?
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Yes Sir Nathan, well done on the Teutonic Kit! I feel inspired to do a Crusader Kit, maybe a Hospitaller (in conjunction to a surprise Kit I have in mind!)!
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And Sir Brian also has one? Woah, would that make us the largest military order presence within the Order of the Marshal?
Whenever I get my but in gear and start working on my Knightly kit, I'm doing a Teutonic theme too. I never used to see anyone doing Teutonic Knights, it was always Templars and Hospitallers, so that made me want to do something different to stand out. Plus, my last name is Swiss-German so it's like a family thing.
So come on Sir William, all the cool Knights are going to have one....
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Saw it on facebook too. It's fantastic. That's a steal at only $140, too!
Sir William, you could always order "plain" clothing for now, and then just send it to her for a COA when you're ready. Since she's making it all, it shouldn't be a problem, and you could get the bulk of the work done already so turnaround would be very quick once you pick a COA. ;)
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Surprise Kit? I am intrigued......
And yeah, The Teutonic order is really underrepresented. It was one of the reasons I did that kit, but also the family thing, and I elaborated for over an hour on this at VARF, so I'll spare you all this time..... ;)
And I'm sure BJ would be happy to do that.
I know, I couldn't believe the total was 140! I've seen surcotes cost more than that! Much less a mantle, with all the details.
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Great ideas all...I don't have a Teutonic or Hospitalier kit...and I do so love the black! I look good in black. LOL
Plus, from what Nathan has told me (and shown us) - plate is not out of the question for them given the time frame. It would also mean I could forego a breast plate...maybe go with a CoP or just the hauberk itself, with plate arms and legs?
I ask because I already have the arms and legs. :) Pics will be posted soon. Oh, and got a new war hammer too!!!
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Teutonic HAMMER TIME!!!!!!
Lol, yes, the Teutonic Order was originally the German branch of the Hospitaliers. After displaying some of that epic-flavored badassery that would characterize them for the next 4 centuries at the Siege of Acre (1190) they became their own order of German Knights (Although still technically a branch of the Hospitaliers). When the Prussian and Lithuanian pagans took up the game of "Rape Pillage and Murder Polish Christians" professionally, the Pope gave them full independence and transferred their primary theatre of operations to the Baltic in 1232 (Though their capital was still located in Acre, so they still served militarily in the holy land). By 1250 the Lithuanians were on the run, and the Prussians were utterly broken, so the German Emperor granted them the right to bear the Imperial Eagle (in escutcheon) upon the Sable Cross Potent which the Pope had already bestowed upon them. The French King granted them the Or Cross Flory, all of which the Hochmeister bears as his personal insignia.
After the loss of Outremer (and their HQ in Acre) their HQ was or for a while located in Venice, but was transferred to Marienburg.
Due to the Poles request that any lands taken by The Order belong to (and thus bear the responsibility of holding) The Order, they gathered a land empire that rivaled any European king, and their military might was unchallenged.
Their era of most power was during the 14th century. Then their combination of supreme military might, Huge "Tracts of Land" and access to several Baltic Sea ports (Due to the fact that they happened to own one of the Coasts!) Really started to wig out the poles. (the guys who asked them to be there in the first place)
So they (the poles) thought it would be a good time for sneaky negotiations, and met with the Grand Duke of the Lithuanians and Allied with them against the Teutonic Order. While this was going on, the Teutonic Order was busy dealing with Novgorod and the Estonians. (Three front war!!!! Wooo!)
Even after Tannenburg (1410) the order maintained a powerful presence in the Baltic, and remained so until a Hochmeister converted to protestantism in 1525 and basically gave away all rights to their land after dispersing The Order's military forces to remote locations. They actually still exist and are in Communion with the Vatican (Still a legitimate order) today.
As far as kit goes, you can almost portray anything! With the gigantic time frame to work with especially.
You also can be afforded some abnormalities as Teutonic Knights had a tendency for lighter armouring (for all the raiding) and the complete melting pot of styles (German and Eastern European)
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Great ideas all...I don't have a Teutonic or Hospitalier kit...and I do so love the black! I look good in black. LOL
Plus, from what Nathan has told me (and shown us) - plate is not out of the question for them given the time frame. It would also mean I could forego a breast plate...maybe go with a CoP or just the hauberk itself, with plate arms and legs?
I ask because I already have the arms and legs. :) Pics will be posted soon. Oh, and got a new war hammer too!!!
German knights do prefer more mail than plate; seems a viable option, and one that I'm entertaining doing, considering the price of the fabric and an idea I'm working on. We could have official "teutonic invasion days" at faire.
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So does that mean I can just call BJ and have her do me a set just like yours? That'd be EASY. lol
Ditto on the arms and armor...Eastern European cavalry swords in particular I do like.
Sir James...out of my head, sir. lol
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Man, the Teutonic order has some very interesting history. You guys are going to make me want to do a Teutonic kit too. :)
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You could, but I'd sue copyright all over your Templar butt! ;D
Here's a link to all the really awesome stuff you could slap onto a Teutonic Knight surcote and mantle.
http://www.imperialteutonicorder.com/id51.html (http://www.imperialteutonicorder.com/id51.html)
And don't forget the Livonian Branch!
http://www.imperialteutonicorder.com/id62.html (http://www.imperialteutonicorder.com/id62.html)
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Lol, yes, the Teutonic Order was originally the German branch of the Hospitaliers. After displaying some of that epic-flavored badassery that would characterize them for the next 4 centuries at the Siege of Acre (1190) they became their own order of German Knights (Although still technically a branch of the Hospitaliers). When the Prussian and Lithuanian pagans took up the game of "Rape Pillage and Murder Polish Christians" professionally, the Pope gave them full independence and transferred their primary theatre of operations to the Baltic in 1232 (Though their capital was still located in Acre, so they still served militarily in the holy land). By 1250 the Lithuanians were on the run, and the Prussians were utterly broken, so the German Emperor granted them the right to bear the Imperial Eagle (in escutcheon) upon the Sable Cross Potent which the Pope had already bestowed upon them. The French King granted them the Or Cross Flory, all of which the Hochmeister bears as his personal insignia.
After the loss of Outremer (and their HQ in Acre) their HQ was or for a while located in Venice, but was transferred to Marienburg.
Due to the Poles request that any lands taken by The Order belong to (and thus bear the responsibility of holding) The Order, they gathered a land empire that rivaled any European king, and their military might was unchallenged.
Their era of most power was during the 14th century. Then their combination of supreme military might, Huge "Tracts of Land" and access to several Baltic Sea ports (Due to the fact that they happened to own one of the Coasts!) Really started to wig out the poles. (the guys who asked them to be there in the first place)
So they (the poles) thought it would be a good time for sneaky negotiations, and met with the Grand Duke of the Lithuanians and Allied with them against the Teutonic Order. While this was going on, the Teutonic Order was busy dealing with Novgorod and the Estonians. (Three front war!!!! Wooo!)
Even after Tannenburg (1410) the order maintained a powerful presence in the Baltic, and remained so until a Hochmeister converted to protestantism in 1525 and basically gave away all rights to their land after dispersing The Order's military forces to remote locations. They actually still exist and are in Communion with the Vatican (Still a legitimate order) today.
Sir Nathan: Your History of the Teutonics is right on the Money! ;D
We could have official "teutonic invasion days" at faire.
Oh Yes! I say "BRING IT ON AND COUNT ME IN!" ;D
You guys are going to make me want to do a Teutonic kit too.
Yes Sir Edward I feel the same sentiment. This is going leave me with (and I assume everyone is listening, thank you) a Templar, Hospitaller (Red Version), Teutonic, 14th Century, 15th Century Italian and 16th Century KITS! LOL! I am only kidding, but I am considering either a Teutonic or Hospitaller Kit (and do not forget that the Hospitallers also have an awesome History be themselves).
Here's a link to all the really awesome stuff you could slap onto a Teutonic Knight surcote and mantle.
http://www.imperialteutonicorder.com/id51.html (http://www.imperialteutonicorder.com/id51.html)
And don't forget the Livonian Branch!
http://www.imperialteutonicorder.com/id62.html (http://www.imperialteutonicorder.com/id62.html)
Awesome!
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Yes, the Hospitaliers certainly do have their own storied history...and the only Hospitalier of our particular order, I have not seen on here since I joined.
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Sir william, you have a Hospitallier kit?
Hey, if your doing Early Teutonic knight, you could do both at the same time! ;D
Sir Josh, thank you. And that was my main thing with doing a Hospitallier, was the change in Surcotes.....Grahh, annoying! :o
Bu you never see the red version of the Hospitalliers, could you do a thread detailing that kit?
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(http://i596.photobucket.com/albums/tt47/reenactthis/Man%20E%20Faces/2288968436_7efeda269a_o.jpg)
HERETIC! tonight you will burn in hell!
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Talking to the Templar or me?
Press that charge against us and we WILL SINK YOUR ISLAND!!!!
Haha, sweet. Haven't seen anyone doing the traditional Hospitallier robes before! Kudos!
Really, a lot of folks don't realize that historically the a full Hospitallier knight would only have a 30 or so year window for the black surcote.
1248, Pope says they can wear something other than the constricting monkish garment (A surcote, finally!!!!!!)
1272, Pope decrees Knights all have to wear a red surcote with a white cross on it, shortly followed by a large riot in St Peters by a rather angry group of reenactors wearing conspicuous large black surcotes with a white Maltese cross upon it......
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ya i know ;)
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Nathan, I don't have a Hospitalier kit yet...was just thinking of doing one instead of the Teutonic Knight. As you've just informed me that they were one and the same at one point, it would still be all to the good, right?
I'm not sure if I will though as they wore mostly mail and you know me, I like a bit more than that for myself. I may have to be reborn as a Hochmiester...liked that particular regalia there.
And OF COURSE Sir Wolf has a Hospitalier kit...but he knows I was thinking of the other one, Sir Samuel, the Dark Knight was it?
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So does that mean I can just call BJ and have her do me a set just like yours? That'd be EASY. lol
Ditto on the arms and armor...Eastern European cavalry swords in particular I do like.
Sir James...out of my head, sir. lol
Man, the Teutonic order has some very interesting history. You guys are going to make me want to do a Teutonic kit too. :)
Gentlemen ... do it. Go Teutonic!
Bu you never see the red version of the Hospitalliers, could you do a thread detailing that kit?
If I remember right, the red surcoat with a white "templar" cross. The templar cross, as most people call it, is a "maltese" cross, which got it's name from the Knights of Malta. It's actually a popular symbol still today. Next time you go by a fire station, see if you can spot one. The maltese cross is a common symbol with fire/rescue, and the most common color for a firetruck? Red, often with white letter/striping/etc.
(cue for the "the fire/rescue service is owned by the templars!" debate? :D)
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Brethren, Gentlemen.........
Gentlemen ... do it. Go Teutonic!
I say this: "GO TEUTONIC! GO TEUTONIC!"
(My thanks to Sir Epic of Awesome Sauce, our own Sir James III)
1272, Pope decrees Knights all have to wear a red surcote with a white cross on it, shortly followed by a large riot in St Peters by a rather angry group of reenactors wearing conspicuous large black surcotes with a white Maltese cross upon it......
That is my reason for going for the "Red" Hospitaller Look. But I am fine being one of the "Knights in Black" in terms of a Black Hospitaller Kit.
could you do a thread detailing that kit?
Yes, I will do so, just need to get my thread images ready.
HERETIC! tonight you will burn in hell!
Talking to the Templar or me?
Press that charge against us and we WILL SINK YOUR ISLAND!!!!
Hahahahahahahahahahahahahaha! "Thou shalt be slain you Pagan Knave!" (LOL! Completely Joking and Kidding with the inside joke.)
I find it quite interesting that all of these Kit Ideas have a common Helmet: The Great Helm!
I think that this is going to leave me with a Templar Kit, a Hospitaller Kit, a Teutonic Kit, and 13th Century Kit and the Surprise Kit which I will start a thread on that soon.
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Sir Joshua...I see we are of like minds as I intend on doing the same (Templar, Hospitalier, Teutonic kits)...and I like the idea of red surcoat with white crosses...we should coordinate. Will this mean I'd need a red shield with a white cross as well as a white shield w/black cross? Not to mention, I need a shield with the beausant as well.
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Sir James, If I remember correctly, the Templar cross was a blood red Cross Potent.
But don't say that too loudly, or else we'll have a documentary crew from the History Channel down here....Dusting everything within a 5 mile radius of the Volunteer Fire department looking for Templar Symbols and fingerprints....
And Sir William, if you're especially attracted to the Hochmeister's insignia, then you could portray a member of his personal standard bearer. In that role you would have the right to bear his insignia with minor variations.
PS, your new name translates in Spanish to "Is William"
And I'm fine with someone doing Hospitaller. After all, the original Idea of the Teutonic Knights was a branch of the Hospitallers to be set up along Templar lines (Dedicated to war)
And I have nothing against the Black Hospitaller look, It's just only good for about 30 years historically.
Cool, I'm getting everyone to go Teutonic! YEEEES! ;D ;D ;D
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In Spanish, 'ser' is a verb form meaning 'to be'. Had I had 'Soy William' then that would mean 'I am William'. The temporary verb form is 'estar', which also means 'to be', but not permanently, like 'ser'. Such as, 'estoy aqui', or 'I am here'. Heh. Surprised I remember that...high school was a LONG time ago. lol
But no...my meaning is an alternative form of 'sir' which I like for aeshetic reasons.
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Well yes. Ser=to be
Since you didn't conjugate it, one would have to use it in the most general sense. To be=is (in usage anyway) It makes the most sense.
BTW, I forgot to attach the pic of Hochmeister's banner.
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I think the Templars mostly used variants of the Maltese Cross. Some looked slightly like the Cross Potent, with straight bars that only flare out at the ends.
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Great pics.
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Thank you ECOX And from what I'm familiar, that's simply a cross potent with flared ends. Seems closer to that then a Maltese IMO
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Right, it's similar. Actually, I kept saying Maltese Cross, but it's really more of a Cross Pattée that they used a lot. I've never really seen a true Cross Potent associated with Templar imagery that I can recall. Of course that doesn't mean it didn't exist. :)
But if I'm not mistaken, it wasn't completely standardized within the Templars.
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You are correct, Sir Edward, it wasn't standardized amongst the Templars...I've seen the cross portent, the pattee (which is on my garb) and the beatific (which is much like the portent, except the arms are straight and dual pointed, making eight points in total).
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I personally don't think it was really standard among the Templars or Teutonic Knights.
And so would the beatific cross be what I'm sporting on my surcoat?
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You know, that's a good question. Some quick googling isn't turning up much on beatific crosses.
I think what you've put together looks great, BTW :)
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Thank you Sir Edward! I'm really thrilled with how the surcote and mantle came out also!
In about 2 weeks or so I should be able to order the Hauberk. :D
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Thank you Sir Edward! I'm really thrilled with how the surcote and mantle came out also!
In about 2 weeks or so I should be able to order the Hauberk. :D
Awesome, I can't wait to see it together!
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Yeah, look out MDRF! :D
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Thank you Sir Edward! I'm really thrilled with how the surcote and mantle came out also!
In about 2 weeks or so I should be able to order the Hauberk. :D
Going butted or rivited?
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I'm going to try for wedge-riveted/solid ring maille. flat ring.
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The beatific cross is used by the Militia Templi, like so:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Maltese_Cross_variant_red.svg (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Maltese_Cross_variant_red.svg)
I couldn't get it to show up so I'm leaving the link instead.
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It's not teutonic or templar, but it's that "other" 3rd massive knightly group.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Knights_Hospitaller (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Knights_Hospitaller)
It talks about a couple different variations of the cross being used, as well as the change in colors. I think the templars would have done something similar before getting a (mostly) standard style. I've seen 3 different styles. It looks like what I call the maltese cross is a "cross pattee".
(http://www.orderstjohn.org/osj/cross04.gif)
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and so I guess I'd be sporting a stylized cross Moline.
And I'm familiar with the Hospitallers. Us Teutonic knights originally were a Branch of the Hospitallers, but German, and organized along the lines of the Templars (as to be more Militaristic)
and from what I remember, there is some serious variations allowed, as long as it's a black cross upon white. It's really only specified with the Hochmeister's insignia (cross Potent)
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I do like the Patriarchal cross.
Edited to add: the formee branchee is the closest to the 'cross of the beatitudes' I have read about; will find link later.
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In Spanish, 'ser' is a verb form meaning 'to be'. Had I had 'Soy William' then that would mean 'I am William'. The temporary verb form is 'estar', which also means 'to be', but not permanently, like 'ser'. Such as, 'estoy aqui', or 'I am here'. Heh. Surprised I remember that...high school was a LONG time ago. lol
But no...my meaning is an alternative form of 'sir' which I like for aeshetic reasons.
I keep forgetting I wanted to mention-- you could also go with "Syr" as the middle-english form of "Sir". It's pronounced like "seer", with a very light rolled "R".
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Hey, I like that...see?
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no its seer :P hahahha jkjk
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It's not teutonic or templar, but it's that "other" 3rd massive knightly group.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Knights_Hospitaller (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Knights_Hospitaller)
It talks about a couple different variations of the cross being used, as well as the change in colors. I think the templars would have done something similar before getting a (mostly) standard style. I've seen 3 different styles. It looks like what I call the maltese cross is a "cross pattee".
(http://www.orderstjohn.org/osj/cross04.gif)
My fave out of those is the cross Potent. Reminds me of the Jerusalem cross a bit too.
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well it is the Jerusalem cross, after all ;)
I am also quite a fan of the cross Potent myself.
It also just so happens to be the cross of the Teutonic Order
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I like the Patriarchal cross too...might have to do a little something with that.
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Yeah, that too ;D
I also love the meaning behind it, it stands for strength.
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Works for me!
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Let's not forget the cross pattee or passion cross. :) I adorn both with my new and old kits.