Breaking swords in degradation ceremony

[Sir Edward]

Interesting post on myArmoury:

Sword-breaking in degradations - origin of a "sword myth"?
http://www.myarmoury.com/talk/viewtopic.php?t=22324&highlight=

There has been a lot of artwork and descriptions of degradation ceremonies in which the offender's sword is snapped in half. But as we know, a properly tempered sword will take quite a bend and still return true. So how does one break a sword over their knee? Actually the same goes for the ease of ripping off the stripes and insignia from a uniform. If it's well stitched, this won't be so easy either. Well, it looks like that's only part of the truth:

From the New York Times article he found:

As a measure of preparation for stripping the prisoner of his insigna of rank the prison tailor yesterday removed all the buttons and stripes from Dreyfus's tunic, the red stripes from his trousers, and the regimental number and braid from his collar and cap. These were all replaced with a single stitch so that they could be torn away readily. The condemned man's sword was also filed almost in twain, in order that it might be easily broken. The Adjutant's quick movement and apparent effort in breaking the sword was consequently mere pretence, as only a mere touch was necessary.

[Sir William]

I've never heard of such...he must've really pissed someone off.  lol

[Sir James A]

Interesting. I've heard of the bending of the viking swords before being buried with their owners, but I haven't heard of breaking swords like that. I've seen the insignias torn off, though, typically after something along the lines of treason or high crimes - and often followed by a short drop from a shorter rope or firing squad.

[Sir William]

Seems like a waste of the time, effort and expertise that went into making it; a better punishment would've been watching it being bestowed on a worthy warrior as the offender was no longer considered one, no?

[Sir Edward]

I wonder how broadly this was done historically. This particular account was much more recent.

If we look back to the time of the knights, I know I've heard of cases where the knight's spurs were hacked off at the shanks. I have no idea what might have been done with regards to the swords.

[Sir Edward]

One of the last public degradation ceremonies for a knight was Sir Francis Mitchell:

(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francis_Mitchell)
"Mitchell's degradation at Westminster Hall  took the form of his spurs being broken and thrown away, his belt cut and his sword broken over his head. Finally, he was pronounced to be 'no longer a Knight but Knave'. After the ceremony, he was made to march through the streets to the Tower of London where he was imprisoned. Mompesson was also sentenced to degradation but fled to France to avoid punishment."

Even with a sword being scored in advance (which I don't know whether that was done here or not), having the sword broken over your head still has to hurt. Wow.

[Sir William]

I'd imagine it wasn't done lovingly, no.  Wonder how rigid his sword was...or maybe they bent it over his head until it snapped or took a set?  Broken could simply mean unusable...

[Sir James A]

Ouch! I can't imagine it being remotely pleasant while wearing a helmet, and certainly not with the I assume bare head.

[Sir William]

Well, judging by the time frame, he could've had a fairly rigid sword, like a tuck, which would've been easier to break over one's head than a say, Type Xa for arguments' sake.