Bill's Harness

[Das Bill]

Are you sure on the price? That looks like pounds to me. Ouch.

Whoops, I hadn't paid attention. That means that instead of $734 USD, they are $937 USD. Meaning I'm further removed from actually making the purchase (but not further removed from dreaming of making the purchase). I particularly like the finger buckler/rondel on the left hand... that might actually be my favorite part. You don't see too many modern armourers do that. I'm not sure of any surviving examples of period hand bucklers, but it is definately seen in period iconography.

[Das Bill]

So it's been a few years since I talked about my harness, but all this talk of armoured combat in the other thread got me to browsing back to this thread. My harness has not seen major updates since then, but there are a few (some of which I'm still waiting on).

First off, I still use the same celeta, but I've also picked up one of these from Armour and Castings:

http://armourandcastings.com/index.php?_a=viewProd&productId=56

I needed a closed face helm for bouting, as I was previously cheating and using my fencing mask (which seemed sad, considering the rest of my harness was so pretty). It doesn't completely match my harness, but it's in the ballpark. It also has a somewhat modernish look to it, but it isn't too shabby. Functionally, it's fantastic. I still use the celeta for teaching, as I can see, breath and hear better with it on, but the armet will be for actual armoured fencing.

Second, these are in the mail from Czech Republic via BestArmour:

http://www.bestarmour.com/gauntlets_6.html

I received word that they were sent a little over a month ago, but you never know how long shipping is going to take from foreign countries, so I'm just waiting around. These were made with hardened spring steel, so they should be nice and light.

I've changed from a black arming cotte to a red one, but it is still by Revival Clothing, which is the same maker as the previous one.

I now use the MRL legs:

http://www.museumreplicas.com/p-28-german-gothic-leg-armor.aspx

Like all of MRL's gothic armour, these turned out to be more pretty than functional. Whoever was saying that these are pretty good is either a liar or has never worn real armour before, because these were pretty bad out of the box, despite being beautiful. Allan at Merc Tailor did some of his magic to them and turned them into functional armour again, though they still weigh a ton (nothing Allan could have done about that).

I've also comissioned some spring steel pauldrons from a guy named Josh Davis, who is an up and coming armorer. He is one of the employees at Arms and Armor, and his work is really, really good. He said he's ready to start them, and just needs my measurements, so it shouldn't take to long at this point. They should look somewhat similar to the attached photo. I'm pretty psyched about these.

[Sir Edward]

That's looking really good! It'll be nice when the gauntlets arrive finally. I'm looking forward to seeing those.

[Sir Rodney]

I'm glad my question prompted you to post in this thread as I would have never found it otherwise.  What an outstanding kit you have!

I'm envious of you commissioning a piece from Josh Davis.  His is a rapidly rising star in our little corner of the expensive hobby universe.

(edited to add)

Here's a thread that contains links to some of Josh's stunning work: http://www.myarmoury.com/talk/viewtopic.php?t=21184

[Das Bill]

I'm glad my question prompted you to post in this thread as I would have never found it otherwise.  What an outstanding kit you have!

Thank you! It's taken many years, and still isn't where I want it yet, but I'm pretty happy with it!

I'm envious of you commissioning a piece from Josh Davis.  His is a rapidly rising star in our little corner of the expensive hobby universe.

Yeah, my friend Theresa has a 14th century harness commissioned by him and I got to see it up close. He has a tremendous talent for being able to get the subtle shapes right. A lot of armourers are good at metal work, but not all of them have the eye for shaping that Josh clearly has.

[Sir William]

I'm kind of glad that I've not gotten to the 'full plate mode' like you guys have...some of what I've seen is breathtaking, and the prices- jawdropping.  

Bill, your harness looks good on ya.

[Sir James A]

Drew from MD can do your greaves for you. he quoted me 290 or something for 4 piece welded greaves. he said u couldnt tell form teh outside they were made that way.

Is Drew in MD from "Parts and Technical"?

Like all of MRL's gothic armour, these turned out to be more pretty than functional. Whoever was saying that these are pretty good is either a liar or has never worn real armour before, because these were pretty bad out of the box, despite being beautiful. Allan at Merc Tailor did some of his magic to them and turned them into functional armour again, though they still weigh a ton (nothing Allan could have done about that).

I have that same set of legs. The upper articulation is very decorative, and that's about it. They "move" enough to be functional, but they are definitely far from historically articulated. The nice part is that if they aren't fit very well, you can remove a lame or two from the upper articulation to get them to feel a bit better. What did Allan do on them to get them more usable? Mine could use that treatment.

I've also comissioned some spring steel pauldrons from a guy named Josh Davis, who is an up and coming armorer. He is one of the employees at Arms and Armor, and his work is really, really good. He said he's ready to start them, and just needs my measurements, so it shouldn't take to long at this point. They should look somewhat similar to the attached photo. I'm pretty psyched about these.

Ah, that pauldron looks like something from Marek? I've oggled over his stuff many, many times. That should compliment your harness quite nicely.

[Sir Gerard de Rodes]

Nice !!
G

[Sir Andrew]

Definitely some BOSS kit going on there, Bill. Yeah, that helm looks like it would breathe quite well....

[Das Bill]

Is Drew in MD from "Parts and Technical"?

Yep, that's him!

I have that same set of legs. The upper articulation is very decorative, and that's about it. They "move" enough to be functional, but they are definitely far from historically articulated. The nice part is that if they aren't fit very well, you can remove a lame or two from the upper articulation to get them to feel a bit better. What did Allan do on them to get them more usable? Mine could use that treatment.

You're right: The upper part is practically all decorative. I'm tall enough that thankfully they're on my thigh and not close enough to the hip where they'd need to move, thankfully. The knee joint doesn't bend enough to fight in. I could walk in it, but not take a proper stance because it wasn't designed properly. To quote Allan, "What kind of clusterfuck is this?" I'm not exactly sure what Allan did (he explained it, but I didn't know all the armoring terms, so I just smiled and nodded), but they function just fine now. His price and turn around time was very, very nice. I expected him to charge way more than he did.

The MRL gothic armour was all designed by Peter Fuller, who is a fantastic armorer. The problem is that the designs seem to be copied for mass production by people who probably only looked at pictures and didn't understand the subtleties to how the various parts should fit. Because of that, all of the pieces show an incredible level of aesthetic detail considering the low price, but are otherwise just not functional armour. The gauntlets are the worst offender of this. Peter Fuller actually did some modifications on my gauntlets and pauldrons and managed to take decorative junk and turn them into reasonably functional armour, but he even said that there was only so much he could do without just building brand new ones from scratch. It's really surprising that Windlass Steelcrafts can do such intricate, beautiful pierce work and fluting but can't take the time to do the important parts.

[Allan Senefelder]

Is Drew in MD from "Parts and Technical"?

If it is Parts and Technical, I saw when they posted them over on the AA and they looked pretty nice, especially for four piece welded construction.

I'm not exactly sure what Allan did (he explained it, but I didn't know all the armoring terms, so I just smiled and nodded), but they function just fine now.

Essentially the articulation had to be totally reworked. As near as I can tell they just seemingly randomly layed down the articulating holes rather than having them be deliberately located so there was a lack of movement in both directions ( hyper extension and full kneeling ). Each plate was, slot filed so that each rivet had the ability to compress a bit, as well as making the slot somewhat wide to allow for better plate movement and also loose riveting the plates together. I tried each trick individually in hopes that one would do the trick but the hole location is so poor that all three had to be used to get them to move properly. Additionally the method of installing the wrap plate made them nearly useless as depite appearences there was almost no ability to actually " wrap " them for different sized people. The wrap plates had to have the excess material cut away where the lapped inside the cuisse and them be re riveted to thier hinges.  As Bill mentioned, it is due purely to his height that the tops of the cuisses worked for him. If he were shorter they would have needed to be reworked as well to how they should have been made to begin with ( slot riveted articulation on the outside of the thigh, two sets of leather compression articulation, one at the middle of the plates and one on the inside of the leg ).

I've also reworked the MRL Gothic B&B plates for one of Christian Toblers guys. This is really not a bad piece after the work is done as the details, much like on the legs are nicely done doing a decent job of conveying the feel of the style. The breats plate is two wide for most folks ( you cannot bring your arms together in front of you ). I had to cut away the large triangular edge rolls ( which really aren't. they're welded on ) and install guessets and do what I had to do to Ed's breast plate, cut away the fixed riveteing of the top and bottom half, slot rivet in the center and turn it into a true two piece breast plate ( the GDFB two piece breast plate I see around alot sufferes from this same problem, its hard riveted together instead of being truely two piece moving so restricts fit based on height got alot of folks ). Christian had already installed articulating leathers on the faulds of the fron and back as when he was tweeking the curvature for fit, they got to a point where they slide past each other, so this probably isn't a bad idea to do to this set in general.

Bill had the MRL gothic gauntlest at one point. As I recall he contacted Pete about them ( they of course don't work right ) and after having alook I think Pete concluded that the main problem was that windlass had simply opted to leave one of the plates of his original design out so there was no way to make them work right at all without that plate. Bill probably remembers better then me as he had the actualy exchange, I just recall reading his post about in on myarmoury.