Brian Price / Chivalry Bookshelf / Revival controversy

[Sir Edward]

It almost seems like their should be a medievally-themed BBB to handle this sort of thing.  In any case, my thoughts are with all of those involved, every last one of them because if there's one thing I CAN understand- it is non-delivery of items already paid for in full.  I'm having this same issue, albeit on a much smaller scale than some, and I'm really struggling with keeping things civil, because of the usual requisites, but it is not easy, especially when a job that should've taken a month at most is now nearing the one year mark and I've not had any comms in over a month, despite assurances that I'd hear within ONE WEEK.

Yeah, it's unfortunate, but any field in which a good bulk of the work is done by artists (which technically armorers and custom sword makers are) tends to have this sort of problem. People who are really good at the work often aren't good at the business side of things. Many of them make some pretty severe mistakes without ever intending to defraud their customers. Probably everyone in this hobby has a horror story about an order gone wrong, be it non-delivery, excessive delays, bad communication, poor quality, or not what was requested.

In Mr Price's case, it's gone way beyond these things, since it's his business partners he's been taking advantage of, and shows a long pattern of unethical behavior (that was well concealed at times).

[Sir William]

I agree...which is why I think some form of body that can protect these artisans and their customers is in order.  Is the BBB going to be effective in this instance?  I'm thinking that not all of these craftsmen are incorporated like a business, even though I know some are.

[Sir James A]

Part of the problem is the "rotation" cycle for these business. At one point, it was probably a good business.

I have had never-ending issues with someone with "30 years experience" in armor who sent me something vastly different from what we agreed upon, completely dropped communication even before I got the armor, and refuses to honor a refund although he's been holding my money for over 6 months and I mailed the armor back weeks ago. The most frustrating thing? He contacted me from a thread I posted asking for references to armorers. Only 2 months before I ordered, I found good reviews of his work. Yet, it's imploded rapidly.

Same thing for some other places, such as Steel Mastery. They used to be praised and recommended, and have fallen quickly, with a few "whats going on?" threads about them.

If the same company was consistently poor, or consistently great, it would be much easier to keep up with. Seems like in the end, we're all going to be ordering mass produced off the shelf generic fit armor and clothing from India. Our options keep getting thinner, and as they do, wait times go up, craftspeople get "overbooked", then burned out, then things collapse, orders aren't filled, and we lose another one. Someone will step up to fill the gap, provide a good product, good service, good prices ... become too popular, get overbooked, burn out ... and the cycle continues. That's what I've seen in the last ~15 years of the armoring community.

But the egregious taking advantage of those who are partners or friends is a whole other issue entirely, and one that should be dealt with appropriately.

[Sir Rodney]

James,

I'm so sorry.  I noticed the comparison pictures you posted on AA.  Frankly, I'd say you are handling the situation very well.  I can turn out a breastplate like that with a my modest shop.  I doubt there's much that even Allan could do to fix it.

I think you may be right concerning "burn out".  Maybe Horsefriend was turning out better armour before, but he sure has fallen off his game.

[Sir William]

I think it is a shame...as consumers we're not initially cognizant of the demands or workload for a given individual artisan- as far as we are concerned, we paid our money we should receive our goods, end of story.  That's business, cold as it sounds.  I'm more likely to allow concessions for someone I do know as opposed to someone I do not- which is good in a way because the rapport's already established and I'm human like anyone else, I do understand that life happens...but in the case of this sordid affair on AA, those folks' capacity for understanding far outstrips my own.  One of them has been waiting for TEN YEARS for something he commissioned, I'm like WTF is going on?

I try not to take sides but it is hard...especially when I have personal experience with something like this.

[Thorsteinn]

Gah!

17 pages and still it goes!

Only good news is that it does look like the authors involved are doing the whole 'Lawyers & Courts' thing.

-Ivan

[Sir Rodney]

Yes, the thread itself seems to have exploded from the depths of hell (not your fault Ivan  ).  The sad part of the whole situation is the fact that no one wins.  Brian, the authors owed royalities, the customers with defective products, the customers with money down on a project, the artists whose work has been stolen/reproduced, the SCA at large; no on wins.

Except the lawyers, they always win.  (speaking of the depths of hell)

[Sir William]

I think there's a special place in Hell for lawyers.  lol

[Sir Edward]

Wow, I stopped reading around page 11... I'll need to go back and catch up.

[Sir Brian]

Speaking of lawyers in hell reminds me of this lawyer joke:

I world renowned Evangelist dies and goes to heaven where he is given a very nice and quaint cottage to spend eternity in. He is most happy and grateful to be in heaven but a little perplexed to see a lawyer whom he had witnessed to while on earth and was eventually saved had been given a huge mansion to live in. He stopped and asked Saint Peter about how he, a devote Evangelist all his life on earth was only rewarded with a nice, although small cottage while a lawyer whom he knew had been a cheat, liar, adulterer and blasphemer before finally accepting Jesus on his deathbed was given a huge and magnificent mansion to live in...

Saint Peter replied that heaven was full of Evangelist both great and small but had only one lawyer!
 

[Sir William]

LMAO

I like it.

[Sir Edward]

BTW, someone created a blog entry with a summary of a lot of what has been revealed so far:

http://willscommonplacebook.blogspot.com/2011/03/more-on-ironically-named-chivalry.html

[Sir William]

I'll have a gander at it...I stopped reading the other thread right around the same time you did, Sir Edward. 

[Thorsteinn]

Hmm.

Seems I've been offered a free book by Christian Tobler.

-Ivan

[Sir Rodney]

Hmm.

Seems I've been offered a free book by Christian Tobler.

-Ivan

Rub it in why don't you.   I'm glad you won the bidding on The Swordsman’s Companion!