Talhoffer 1459 links

[Sir Edward]

I added some links to the links page for Talhoffer 1459 imagery. Here's an example showing a great little joust scene. It almost looks like the horses are head-butting.



Talhoffer reproductions online:

http://www.flaez.ch/talhoffer/index.html (static images and text, untranslated)

http://www.kb.dk/da/nb/materialer/haandskrifter/HA/e-mss/thalhofer/thott-2_290.html (allows pan and zoom)

http://www.scribd.com/doc/33637817/Fight-Earnestly-Talhoffer-s-1459-Fight-Manual (translation and commentary, and downloadable)

[Sir James A]

Excellent links, thank you Sir Edward.

The horses do seem a bit "odd". They look too close together, based on the lances being on the outer arms. I can't remember if that's southern or northern style, but if I remember right the horses would be farther apart for jousting in that style; more of a "peaceful" style with less chance of injuries since the impact is at an angle, rather than nearly head-on.

[Sir Edward]

I agree, it looks like they're jousting with the lances crossing over the neck (passing on each other's left).

The thing to keep in mind when looking at any of the period manuscripts is that the artwork was never done as a photograph. That is, it's meant to convey information, but not meant to preserve scale, proportion, or photographic accuracy, or to even necessarily capture a single moment in time.

If we were to try to take every detail of that image literally, it looks like the lance is knocking the guy over before even reaching him. It's a magic lance.

[Das Bill]

The thing to keep in mind when looking at any of the period manuscripts is that the artwork was never done as a photograph. That is, it's meant to convey information, but not meant to preserve scale, proportion, or photographic accuracy, or to even necessarily capture a single moment in time.

Absolutely! Also, this was an era before the concept of perspective in two dimensional art, so we can't analyze too deeply what's going on here.

[Sir William]

I agree, it looks like they're jousting with the lances crossing over the neck (passing on each other's left).

I thought that was how it was done in tourney, so as to mitigate some of the force of the blow and make the shield the primary target, as opposed to head, limbs or horse?

[Sir Edward]

Depends on the time period. Earlier tourneys were practically all-out warfare.

[Sir William]

I should've clarified...I meant post-Marshal.  From my readings, I understand that the earlier tournaments were as you said, practically all-out warfare...its easy for me to sit here and say cool, I wanna do that- but I doubt I'd want to lose my life in said outing.

I think that one day we'll be taking virtual vacations a la Total Recall...or even better, being able to take vacations in history like Stewie did on Family Guy.  Imagine being able to be a man-at-arms in Edward's army at Crecy or Henry's at Agincourt, or stand with the Marshal alongside the Templars in the Holy Land...and if you die on the battlefield all it does is terminate your vacation, not you.

I think I just came up with a premise for a novella.

[Sir Edward]

Yep, later when it became a more organized competitive sport, they made all sorts of changes to make it safer.

Oh man, how cool would that be? We really need a star-trek style holodeck.

[Sir William]

Holodeck ftw!  Wouldn't that be grand?