Armor for SwordChick

[Das Bill]

I like what is said about it on the website:
"# What An Awesome Unique Gift Idea for

    * Dad or Mom
    * Husband or Wife
    * Boyfriend or Girlfriend
    * Brother or Sister
    * Aunt or Uncle

# Father's Day, Mother's Day, Halloween, Graduations, Birthdays, Christmas or Anniversaries
# Anytime you want to make them feel special!!!"

 

"Nothing says love like a gothic flanged mace." -Sir Edward Toton, circa 2007

[Das Bill]

I think you can pull off the Revival Clothing ankle boots for either 14th or early 15th century without any issues. Same with the turnshoes. And you could also temporarily get away with cotton tights rather than proper hosen while you're saving up... the only thing that would look slightly odd is that you wouldn't have a codpiece... but then, you wouldn't technically need one, now would you? So in a way, it would look just as odd if you did have one. Funny, I never thought about that before. Pshh. Medieval cross dressing. Either way, you will likely eventually have a mail fauld or something that would hang over that area, so no one would ever see.

I'd forgotten to add that Pamela and I were talking about the possibility of her using jack chains instead of full arms, since GDFB makes those. EVERYBODY wears arms, but you never see anyone wear jack chains, which are super cool.

http://www.casiberia.com/product_details.asp?id=AB0087

I was lurking around the CAS site, and I found that they now carry these by GDFB:


That piece is very inexpensive, and would be perfect for the 15th c. kit. The only problem would be whether or not it fits. And I'm a little alarmed that it comes in two sizes: Large and Sexually Transmitted Disease (STD).

I also just noticed, Pamela, that they have a houndskull bascinet at a very reasonable price, which would work for your 14th c. route:

http://www.casiberia.com/product_details.asp?id=AB0423&mg=1

But you'd still need the mail aventail.

And it just occurred to me that Museum Replicas also has a bascinet which Sir Wolf posted not too long ago:

http://www.museumreplicas.com/museumreplicas/detail.aspx?ID=353

And that one even comes with a mail aventail, though it is butted. It would be up to you whether you would want to replace it with more historical rivetted mail.

Geeze, I need to stop with all this fashion advice for Pamela. If I'm not careful, I may start saying things like, "FAAAABulous!", and I'll become much bitchier.

[Sword Chick]

Simple solution = I'll take one of everything.   

I'd forgotten to add that Pamela and I were talking about the possibility of her using jack chains instead of full arms, since GDFB makes those. EVERYBODY wears arms, but you never see anyone wear jack chains, which are super cool.

The jack chains really are wicked cool. 

Geeze, I need to stop with all this fashion advice for Pamela. If I'm not careful, I may start saying things like, "FAAAABulous!", and I'll become much bitchier.

I told you you aren't swooshy enough to be a fashion designer.   

[Das Bill]

Hey Pamela,
I found one of those archer's sallets that we were talking about on Peter Fuller's website:

http://www.medievalrepro.com/Helmets.htm

[Sir Edward]

Wow, you've been busy! It looks like it's turning into a nice little shopping list. Fabulous! (heh)

[Das Bill]

Wow, you've been busy! It looks like it's turning into a nice little shopping list. Fabulous! (heh)

Its because I spent so much time planning my own harness before starting to put the pieces together, and I'm still not quite finished, so I have so many books tagged and webpages bookmarked.

[Das Bill]

I'm having WAY too much fun trying to spend Pamela's money here.

So Pamela: First, we were talking about whether or not to get gauntlets right away, and I'm finding plenty of period imagery where full plate harnesses are worn without gauntlets, so you're safe there. We were talking about fingerless demi-gauntlets, and wondering whether that was confined to the 14th century, or whether that continued into the 15th. Well, it definately continued into the 15th. Check out folio 9r in Paulus Kal's treatise:

http://mdz10.bib-bvb.de/~db/bsb00001840/images/index.html?seite=23

There are a number of other images in Kal showing demi-gauntlets over mail gloves, too, and all of this is from the third quarter of the 15th c.

On a similar note, we were talking about a cuirass that only covered the front. There are a lot of images in Kal of fully armoured, mounted knights who appear to not have back plates. Look at folios 6v, 8v, 13r, 15r, 16r, 17r. 6v in particular:

http://mdz10.bib-bvb.de/~db/bsb00001840/images/index.html?seite=18

This image might imply that you could get away with your Revival Clothing gambeson. While it may be intended for 14th c, the rough design might transfer over to later periods. Perhaps not up to living history standards, but I think you might be able to get away with it. Further, the extra padding of the gambeson would probably be too thick for both breast and back plate, but a frontal piece would work well. In the color version of the photo, it appears that the mail fauld is worn under the gambeson.

Of course, you'd still need an arming doublet or pourpoint in order to point the legs. But if you were leaning at all towards 15th c, but the idea of using your gambeson was holding you into the 14th, this might be a tie breaker.

[Sword Chick]

I'm having WAY too much fun trying to spend Pamela's money here.

I truly do appreciate the help.   (Thank you dahling!  kiss kiss  )

That's good news about the half gauntlets or no gauntlets being correct.  As you know, I get cranky with trying to find a pair of gloves that fit.  So skipping the gauntlets, at least for now, certainly does appeal to me.

On a similar note, we were talking about a cuirass that only covered the front. There are a lot of images in Kal of fully armoured, mounted knights who appear to not have back plates.

Hmm, again, that sounds quite appealing.  I can get closer to a complete look sooner.

Of course, you'd still need an arming doublet or pourpoint in order to point the legs. But if you were leaning at all towards 15th c, but the idea of using your gambeson was holding you into the 14th, this might be a tie breaker. 

Actually, at this point, I'm kinda excited about attempting to make the arming doublet.  And, I was worried about using my gambeson after talking about the possibility that the armour would leave marks on a gambeson.  I've decided I like the natural color, so I don't want to see it abused too soon.

I have taken my first official, though minor step.  I took advantage of Revival Clothing's March sale and got the ankle boots.

I am leaning (okay, toppling) towards the revival.us legs.  I was talking to Christian about them again today. 

[Christian Tobler]

Hey folks,

Yay! Let's *all* help Pamela spend her money. First, I'll take a new watch, a Ferrari, a steak dinner, oh, and...a complete Robert MacPhearson harness!! But seriously...

First, Brother Bill - be careful about gauntlets...if we're talking about Fechtbucher, they are (almost certainly) always wearing them. That they aren't always drawn appears to be an artistic convention. Good examples of what I mean are in several Talhoffers and in Gladiatoria - the gauntlets are only drawn when the technique specifically involves them; otherwise they're omitted for the sake of showing the fingers clearly.

There may be other iconographic sources that show this, with the intent of the fighter truly not wearing them, but we can draw such a conclusion from the treatises.

Now, the jack chains are a great idea - I know of two who wear them: AEMMA's Brian McIlmolye and "Big" Dave Teague. They're way cool...

If you have a foundation garment, and I can see some rationale for using the RC gambeson (but for the legs, your idea of making one is better, Pamela - though you could get the pourpoint as well), based on the Kal evidence, you should first get, and I think in this order:

Helmet
Gauntlets
Breastplate or Brigandine or Coat of Plates

If you're going 15th c., the GDFB breastplate looks good, and I've been meaning to get one to evaluate for our guys (hint, hint Ed: you'll be hearing from me soon!). Has anyone seen this yet?

The jack chains would be a great, inexpensive compliment to that, though they're *usually* shown on guys wearing either just the jack, or a brigandine.

GDFB certainly has helmets that'll work.

The Revival.us legs will go with all of the above.

Now, gauntlets...one possibility is the mitten variety sold on Ebay by Armstreet/Steel Mastery. I haven't evaluated them yet, so I'm not sure. But in any case, these would go on over whatever leather gloves fit you.

I'm at work, so that's all I have for now, but I'll keep an eye out on this thread...

CHT

[Sir Edward]

If you're going 15th c., the GDFB breastplate looks good, and I've been meaning to get one to evaluate for our guys (hint, hint Ed: you'll be hearing from me soon!). Has anyone seen this yet?

Welcome to the forum!!

Unfortunately I haven't had a chance to see the breastplates yet. I'm curious about them as well.

[Sword Chick]

Hi Christian!  Gee, it's been ages since I've heard from you.   

Thank you for helping me on this.  My worry about gauntlets is finding a pair small enough.  Even my padded gloves are too big.  I get frustrated when my hands move, but my gloves, and therefore my sword, don't.  Any advice you could throw my way about gauntlets would be wonderful.

Oh, and thanks again for letting me try on the legs.    If you are going to play fashion designer like Bill, then here's a kiss kiss in your general direction as well.   

[Sir Edward]

I'll shop with you for gaunts, I need them to. I'm sure a custom set could be made to fit perfectly, I just haven't looked into it yet.

[Das Bill]

First, Brother Bill - be careful about gauntlets...if we're talking about Fechtbucher, they are (almost certainly) always wearing them. That they aren't always drawn appears to be an artistic convention. Good examples of what I mean are in several Talhoffers and in Gladiatoria - the gauntlets are only drawn when the technique specifically involves them; otherwise they're omitted for the sake of showing the fingers clearly.

There may be other iconographic sources that show this, with the intent of the fighter truly not wearing them, but we can draw such a conclusion from the treatises.

I actually was thinking of other sources besides the fechtbucher, but point taken. In fact, as I think about it, there may be other reasons they aren't wearing the gauntlets in those sources. For example, there's a painting on p. 95 of Arms and Armor of the Medieval Knight without them, but the wearer is not in combat, and his bearing water to King David, so perhaps this is why the gauntlets are not present. There are some funerary brasses of knights without gauntlets as well, but again, that does not depict combat.

The jack chains would be a great, inexpensive compliment to that, though they're *usually* shown on guys wearing either just the jack, or a brigandine.

Yeah, I mentioned this to Pamela as well. I've only seen them on padded jacks alone or in combination with a brigandine, and never with any other form of harness. Still, I think they're plausible enough, if we keep it within reason. Glad to know I'm not the only one who thinks so.

[Sword Chick]

I'll shop with you for gaunts, I need them to. I'm sure a custom set could be made to fit perfectly, I just haven't looked into it yet.

Okay, kiss kiss for you too!   

[Christian Tobler]

Moral of story: When you help women buy armour, they kiss you.

Damn, I love this business...

Onto more serious business: Pamela, I'm working on the same problem with my student Catriona. She's a powerhouse, but petite. Finding gauntlets for her is going to be an ongoing problem.

CHT