Discussion: Valor

[Sir William]

AGREED.  It is unfortunate that this is not the rule.  I feel like the reasoning behind someone performing a break-in should not matter...only that it was done.

We live in a really effed up world...how is it that a burglar can break in, accidentally injure himself in the commission of said break in- and manage to successfully sue the elderly woman he was trying to rob?  What the hell was the jury thinking?  Sometimes I have to laugh to keep from crying at this sad state of affairs.

[Sir Brian]

Sadly this is so true of society in this modern world Paladin. 

Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter! ~ Isaiah 5:20

[Sir Edward]

Sometimes it's the civil lawsuits that get you. In many cases, where lethal force was clearly used in a morally correct fashion, the police/district/etc won't charge you criminally. But then the bad guy's family gets a crack at you in civil court, where the burden of evidence is much lower, and they can take your house.

Scary.

But then, I guess that's what true valor is for, eh?

[Sir James A]

It would be interesting to see see how different (if at all) the fallout would have been if the student had confronted the intruder with a firearm instead of a sword (I'm assumming the intruder was armed).  Was it so much the necessity of employing deadly force, or the exotic nature of the weapon that has caused the controversy?  Now, I have to go check that the drawbridge is up before retiring for the evening .

The sword seemed to be very much the point of debate. Quoting one of the articles about it:

"The incident was the second this week in which a man was wounded trying to commit a robbery. An off-duty Baltimore police officer shot and critically wounded a man who had tried to rob him at gunpoint in his Northeast Baltimore home, according to police. He chased the man for two blocks before opening fire, police said."

I found it a bit odd that no charges were mentioned against the officer, despite the fact that he chased the man for 2 blocks, then opened fire; whereas the student defended himself on his own property. IMO, the officer took things quite far; I'm not sure how it took him 2 blocks of pursuit to decide to start shooting.

That was definitely an interesting case. Personally, I think anyone who intrudes into someone's home (even the enclosed yard, like this case) with criminal intent and behaves violently towards the residents puts his own safety, and life, in forfeit. Period.

Laws vary state to state. Virginia law roughly states you have a "duty" to retreat in your own home, until you are unable to do so ... meaning if you're in the living room and someone breaks in, you are supposed to run to the bedroom instead of confronting them.

West Virginia has a "castle law", in which if someone is on your property (literally land, not even inside your house) uninvited, you tell them to leave, and you believe yourself to be in reasonable danger, you can engage them. There is no duty to retreat in the home, and intruders can be dealt with aggressively and forcefully. I had no idea about the difference in laws until after I moved here, and the Virginia law still shocks and concerns me, as I have family that lives there.

It's almost as if valor is illegal in some circumstances.

[Sir Patrick]

I think we can all agree defending one's self/home from a violent intruder is valorous (though the legallity may vary by state).  However, in the modern era, such events are not typical (I know they happen all the time, I'm just saying the odds are most of us will not find ourselves in such a position).  Getting back to Sir Brian's earier post, I agree valor is the impetus to continue forward in the face of fear.  Think of valor as the right hand of honor.  Honor is "knowing" what is right in a given situation, valor allows one to take the next step and "do" what is right.  Again, I'm amazed at how these virtues cannot be truely expressed in a vacuum!  In our everyday world, I think of valor as having the courage to do the right thing despite the backlash you know it will bring.  Personal courage is not limited to the battlefield.

[Sir William]

Well said, all of you.  Sir Brian, that is an apt quote.  Sir James, all states should adopt the Castle law...it is true, there will be those who take it to the next level but I think that if criminals are aware that the average Joe Citizen is allowed to protect his household by any means necessary, there would be less home invasions.  Criminals are very aware of how the law works- their entire existence depends on them circumventing said laws so only the dumb ones have no clue.

Thankfully, there seems to be a lot of the latter variety.

[SirNathanQ]

Yeah! Go WV! Knightly virtues FTW!

But personally, I agree w/ Sir Ed.
Whenever you do anything, you take a risk. When playing chess, you risk pieces. In business you risk money. When playing sports, you risk injury. Whenever you try to force someone to do anything w/ or even with the threat of lethal force, you risk your life. When you put someones life on the line, you are standing right beside him.