Miscellaneous > The Sallyport

Knight for Hire

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Sir Wolf:
thats pretty bad assed. cool thanks for the link

Sir James A:
Wow. I thought it looked mildly familiar, and then I saw the tribute to his father page. I saw that site probably a decade ago or more. Very impressive that he's moved forward and seems to have done well for himself on that. The story of his father hits pretty close to home, my father lost his father when he was very young, and one of my biggest fears is to leave my child(ren) (when I have them, of course) when they are still young.

It's interesting that he mentions how the US can knight people, and not just England. Anyone know if there's any logic/truth to that? It's a bit hypocritical, but I feel like knighting in england is mostly hollow in this day and age. Elton John? Patrick Stewart? Paul McCartney? Alfred Hitchcock? Seems there are innumerable others deserving of that honor, like the ones who perform feats of heroism and get little more than the requisite "15 minutes of fame", if even that....

Sir William:
Knighthood these days is just like getting a medal, the significance is lost for the most part.  So why not?  What is required to be able to give the accolade?  I gave the accolade to my best man before my wedding so he could stand beside me, even though I have never received it myself.  Your thoughts, knights?

Sir Edward:

Knighthood has evolved a lot. Believe it or not, there are many European nations that have an unbroken tradition of knighthood, including specific Orders that have existed for centuries. In England, they have more than one form of it, including the Order of the Garter which has only a very specific number of "seats" that it keeps filled. In all of these cases, it's a title that has the much later connotation of what knighthood was, that it was evolving into during the Renaissance.

I agree, most of the general knightings we see in England today aren't what they used to be. To me it almost seems like it's a desperate attempt by their royalty to remain relevant in popular culture. I mean, Bill Gates? Really?

As for the idea of titles and knighthood in the US, there's some wiggle-room here. The constitution prevents the government from officially offering or sanctioning titles. However, there's nothing to stop private citizens from doing what they want in this regard, or private organizations (religious institutions, fraternal organizations, clubs, Orders, etc) from using whatever names and titles they wish. You can still be knighted by a foreign power, but the US government is disallowed from giving you any special treatment due to it. Royal bloodlines can live within our borders and retain their "royalty" in the eyes of the world.

So being knighted by town mayors doesn't carry any force of law behind it, but there's nothing to stop anyone from having a ceremony and using the word "sir" if they want to. In the UK I think you'd still be OK to do this within a private organization, but they have legal titles in their country, so going around calling yourself "sir" in a public context there would be a bad idea.

So I think you can call yourself a "real" knight if you've been knighted by someone else who is a "real" knight, or by one the of the orders or royalty in an existing unbroken tradition or bloodline, or if you're in a private organization that uses the title. The latter is an important point, I think, as that can include the various knightly groups that have sprung up all over the place.

In the end, what is "real" anyway? We are, after all, talking about a word being attached to a human being that is 99.999% genetically identical to every other human being. :)

Sir William:
Well, for my part, knighthood was never conferred upon me, I assumed that mantle years ago- as a child it was an aspiration I never totally forgot and as an adult, I espouse many of the chivalric ideals and try to live them.  Does this make me a knight?  As far as I'm concerned, it does.

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