Creating a society/order?

[Sir Edward]

Thank you Sir Edward,  your knowledge of Heraldry vastly surpasses mine. I like that design much better than what I had originally done. It somehow looks more right, even if it is not quite right with existing examples. I guess the question is now, does that violate the rules and tradition too much or is it exeptable? I suppose I could rework it to have the proper three way division, if it's deemed too much of a stretch.

The way I drew it up should be fine. Any other changes you want to make to it?

[Sir Patrick]

That looks pretty cool, Sir Matthew!

[Sir Matthew]

Nope, looks very nice. I thank you very much for the assistance Sir Edward.

[Sir Edward]

No problem at all. I have it added on the roster here : http://orderofthemarshal.org/roster.html

[Sir William]

Now, it is only Sir Ancelyn's CoA that needs to be added...can't wait to see what he comes up with!  Nice CoA, Sir Matthew...as I have little experience with these, I can only comment on how cool it looks.  

I just thought of something else...how do we, or do we have the surcoats match the CoA?  A la Sir Brian's?

[Sir Edward]

Historically the surcoats didn't need to match. Sometimes they did, sometimes they didn't. Sometimes they had the main colors but a completely different or additional charge on it. I think it's best to let everyone do what they want here.

[Sir James (Fiat Lux)]

Woooooah, big explody thread out of nowhere! That's what I get for getting distracted!

I'm still reading through everything, but I find it interesting just how similar some of these discussions are to ones I've heard about the formation of the Fiat Lux. I'm sure I'll have plenty of questions in the near future, but in the meantime, feel free to drop me a pm/e-mail with any questions you guys may have.

In what may be a rather controvercial question (and if it rocks the boat too much, let me know!), what prevented you (as in any members!) from joining one of the existing chivalric organizations? I only ask out of curiosity - it's exciting to see a new group come up!

[Sir William]

Well, for my part, I was turned off from the SCA about ten years ago...when I was flirting with the idea of joining, I had a couple of hardcore SCA-dians tell me that if I wasn't going to play by their rules, they didn't want or need me in their game.  A few others tried to apologize for those two but being the hothead I was, I figured there was no sense in showing up somewhere that I knew would be confrontational just because of a couple of offhand comments.

After that, I stopped looking around and focused on my kit and arsenal, and the Faire.  I don't feel like I missed out on anything with a couple of exceptions but that's life and I'm still living it.

[Sir Brian]

COA looks great Mat! Well done! 

[Sir James A]

EDIT:  Forgot to translate my CoA.  Gules is for magnamity and fortitude; the cinquefoil represents strength, loyalty, and honor; and the chevron denotes protection.  To me, the whole thing is basically a warning to oppresors and predators:  I will defend the innocent and the weak against you.

Ours is somewhat similar, then. On mine:

* The chevron denotes a protective wall
* The two lions at the top are my wife and I - statant as we are calm protectors
* The lion on the lower portion inside the chevron is symbolic of the family we protect
* Black (field) represents the darkness/evil that surrounds us
* Gold is for nobility, and as a contrast to the darkness around us (figuratively speaking)

I just thought of something else...how do we, or do we have the surcoats match the CoA?  A la Sir Brian's?

Question along those lines; I think the chevron may look strange on a surcoat. Would a solid-colored surcoat, with an actual shield with the heraldry placed in the center, chest and/or back, ending a bit above belt level be anywhere near historically correct? I've seen it in a few places, but I think it was movies/games, and can't remember or find any historical pictures.

Similar to this (http://api.ning.com/files/3voowQUZK4xdg49h0OByx9R-dXiHe5dpy2NGH1A1kM0mutBTx8fK5QvwjbJfMrfvdrP2Exv8R8uQI*9MHasLvP-MdNF0hvjY/124910d1245232185ridleyscottsrobinhood2010russellcrowerobinhoodset04.jpg) probably on a white (or lighter colored) surcoat for contrast.

In what may be a rather controvercial question (and if it rocks the boat too much, let me know!), what prevented you (as in any members!) from joining one of the existing chivalric organizations? I only ask out of curiosity - it's exciting to see a new group come up!

There's a few reasons I have.

I don't know of any Orders around my area. I like the people here. I dislike both the politics, rules, and "rankings" in the SCA. Specifically the people who try to force their personal beliefs on their group once they get "in power". The other half-peeve is picking a "persona". I have a variety of interests, 14th-16th century Italian, Gothic, and English armor; I wouldn't be able to pick a favorite to portray. By picking a persona, picking a name, and "dressing up" ... it feels like it LARP/Harry Potter/Twilight/LotR, teen/tween make-believe time. I also don't see much "meat" in it to interest me; other than the sport of rattan combat (which is secondary to learning real swordsmanship), the events and activities haven't appealed much to me, though it may just be lack of good activites locally; but that, again, brings about the "no interesting local groups" back into the equation.

The last lingering bit is that I have a very busy schedule; stainless armor, while "the work of the devil" to many, means that I can avoid spending 15 hours every 6-8 weeks cleaning off rust and doing maintenance (I have a few harnesses and the mild steel is VERY frustrating at times). I noticed last week my gothic harness is starting to rust under the straps, and it's yet to even be worn (finishing the arming coat/points/etc).

The "You should really consider using period steel. And period wool. And period flax." bothers me, as I'm far, far more interested in the knights themselves and how it feels to wear the armor. Especially since it's not plastic, and the SCA is not a Living History group. Easy maintenance is a priority over historical accuracy for most things for me, as long as it presents a good attempt at a historical appearance. Finding an armorer to work in stainless? Not so pleasant.


(Edit by Ed, fixed URL for image)

[Sir Gerard de Rodes]

Woooooah, big explody thread out of nowhere! That's what I get for getting distracted!

I'm still reading through everything, but I find it interesting just how similar some of these discussions are to ones I've heard about the formation of the Fiat Lux. I'm sure I'll have plenty of questions in the near future, but in the meantime, feel free to drop me a pm/e-mail with any questions you guys may have.

In what may be a rather controvercial question (and if it rocks the boat too much, let me know!), what prevented you (as in any members!) from joining one of the existing chivalric organizations? I only ask out of curiosity - it's exciting to see a new group come up!

As an extremely active  member of  a very successful medieval re-enactment group here in England, I struggle to find time to partake in many of the online groups out there in Internet land.

When I came across this forum I found its members to be very welcoming and enjoyed reading ( and occasionally joining in ) the many varied and informative threads.

I find the general ethos of the group and members to be honourable and admirable, moreover, very close to my own ideals.
It seemed a natural progressive step to support the new order of chivalry, even though it may have to be  in a very minor capacity. given the geographical distance.
 Although I live such a distance from the membership, I have always been made to feel welcome and that the distance is never an issue.

G

[Sir William]

I just thought of something else...how do we, or do we have the surcoats match the CoA?  A la Sir Brian's?

Question along those lines; I think the chevron may look strange on a surcoat. Would a solid-colored surcoat, with an actual shield with the heraldry placed in the center, chest and/or back, ending a bit above belt level be anywhere near historically correct? I've seen it in a few places, but I think it was movies/games, and can't remember or find any historical pictures.

Similar to this (http://api.ning.com/files/3voowQUZK4xdg49h0OByx9R-dXiHe5dpy2NGH1A1kM0mutBTx8fK5QvwjbJfMrfvdrP2Exv8R8uQI*9MHasLvP-MdNF0hvjY/124910d1245232185ridleyscottsrobinhood2010russellcrowerobinhoodset04.jpg) probably on a white (or lighter colored) surcoat for contrast.

(Edit by Ed, fixed URL for image)

I don't know that it would look that bad...Sir Wolf's red surcoat has a white chevron that looks really good.  I've also read of a badge similar to yours- except it was a yellow surcoat with a black chevron...gotta find the reference for it.

[Sir Edward]

Some great replies here so far. For me, I laid out some of my hesitations on creating a group back in the first post. But as for joining one, well, I've kept my eyes open for a long time. But finding a group that's relatively local and shares my level of interest (our sort of blend of history, easy-going nature, and so on) has been a challenge. The SCA ends up being the whipping boys in this sort of discussion, so I'll use them as an example as well. They take things very seriously, persona and all, to a level that can cause a firestorm of disagreement over titles, accuracy, politics, and a host of other issues. They're also not focused on knights, swords & armor, and historical combat, despite the competitive combat aspect of the organization.

Outside of that, it's been location, different focus, etc.

I have to admit, the Fiat Lux has looked the most interesting of many of the options out there, though you guys are of course some distance away.

[Sir James (Fiat Lux)]

And some good answers to my question as well!

I can certainly see an upside to having a decentralized group, especially for those in isolated areas, or unable to find a critical mass to start their own local group. Like I mentioned in my initial post, the whole thing is similar to what I've seen/heard about the Fiat Lux starting up. Feel free to pick my brain for any questions you guys have!

[Sir William]

I knew I'd find him, Sir James (Anderson) - here's a pic of Sir Wolf in his surcoat w/chevron...looks pretty good if I do say so myself.