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Gutter Arm Questions

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Sir Patrick:
This effigy is the inspiration for my early 14th century kit.  I have already made the ailettes, but have a couple of questions regarding the gutter arms.
1.  Is there a shoulder cop in a gutter arm/ailette set-up, and if so, how is the combination pointed?

2.  Is the elbow in gutter arms of the period articulated, or free-floating?

http://www.gothiceye.com/popup.asp?Ref=KN025

Allan Senefelder:
Arms tended to be made up of three pieces, a seperate, rebrace, elbow cop and bracer or vambrace at the time this effigy was done. As for whether theres a shoulder cop of some sort there its not visible in the effigy pic so its tough to say.

Sir Wolf:
true Allen. there are some at this time that do have spaulder caps so its up in the air I think or open to your interpretation.

as to free flowing, I think there is an internal piece of leather that may hold them all together but allows them to move around.  http://www.madmattsarmory.com/images/armor/FullWrapRearbrace_L.jpg Mad Matt's Armory has a picture that sorta shows what I mean.  If there was a spaulder cap with our without lames I would think it would attach the same way. but as stated thats my interpretation. you could leave them unattached and make them point together or to the mail.

Allan Senefelder:

--- Quote ---as to free flowing, I think there is an internal piece of leather that may hold them all together but allows them to move around.  http://www.madmattsarmory.com/images/armor/FullWrapRearbrace_L.jpg Mad Matt's Armory has a picture that sorta shows what I mean.
--- End quote ---

I have always wondered about this. I know that theres late 15th and 16th century arm harness that works that way, and the method is astoundingly simple that it seemed odd that it wasn't used as the first method of attaching the seperate plate components of arm harness together in the early 14th century prior to plate to plate ( shared rivet ) articulation but you never really hear anything about it that early.

Sir Wolf:
you know the way the vambracer is sitting i almost wanna say that is free floating and the rest are attached together by an internal leather piece.  try holding your hands as shown in the picture. there isn't a way that the vambracers would let you do that if they were attached. they would be more towards the outside of the arm and not on top if they were.

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