"The maximum use of force is in no way incompatible with the simultaneous use of the intellect."
                -- Carl Von Clausewitz

Author Topic: Help fix boring Helm  (Read 34343 times)

Don Diego

  • Newbie
  • Posts: 1
  • Leading the Reconquista
Help fix boring Helm
« on: 2009-12-11, 16:17:34 »
As you can see I have a very plain helm. Where can I find all the cool decor I see on other helms or am I going to have to try and make it myself?

Sir Brian

  • Knight of the Order
  • Forum Veteran
  • ****
  • Posts: 4,735
  • Felix uxor beatam vitam - Happy Wife Happy Life
    • Order of the Marshal
Re: Help fix boring Helm
« Reply #1 on: 2009-12-12, 08:18:19 »
Hail and well met Don Diego and welcome to the forum!  :)

You appear to have a very nice sugarloaf style great helm there. If you were referring to a crest like Sir Edward's and mine that will be problematic.
I also have a hybrid version of the sugarloaf great helm and switched to the older version great helm with the flat top so I could use the current device
I have.

Still a fan type of crest can be made and attached which was also used during period as well as feather plumes in your primary color and metal.

The torse or wreath (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Torse) shouldn't be too difficult to manage, keeping it in place will be a bit of a pain and may
require the drilling of some holes to adequately lash it to the helm.

Do you have a coat of arms yet or a particular device/charge in mind?
"Chivalry our Strength, Brotherhood our sword"
Vert, on a Chief wavy Argent a Rose Sable,
a Gryphon Segreant Or

[img width=100 height=100]
<a href="http://s221.photobucket.com/user/Tah908/media/LP_Medals_zpsq7zzdvve.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i221.photobucket.

Sir Edward

  • Forum Admin
  • Commander of the Order
  • Forum Veteran
  • *****
  • Posts: 9,340
  • Verum et Honorem.
    • ed.toton.org
Re: Help fix boring Helm
« Reply #2 on: 2009-12-14, 14:21:22 »

A crest could still be done, but it would have to have a conical base designed to sit on top of the point of the helm, probably. I'm not sure how difficult that would be.

The crest that I'm using currently comes with a velcro-attached leather base that sits on a flat top. The one I used before, I had made a plywood base with magnets and rubber stand-offs to sit on the flat top as well.
Sir Ed T. Toton III
Knight Commander, Order of the Marshal

( Personal Site | My Facebook )

Sir Robert

  • Sir Robert
  • Knight of the Order
  • Forum Follower
  • ****
  • Posts: 154
  • A leasanna a chosaint agus
Re: Help fix boring Helm
« Reply #3 on: 2009-12-15, 20:09:58 »
Hail all noble knights!

I am pondering this very question and the subject is creating a tournament helm. The decorated helm was but decoration and these helms were used in the opening and closing of a tournament field to identify the knights.

It was most common to use the animal from ones coat-of-arms with the metal color from the heraldry. The "cape" was a miniature of the edging and other colors from the coat-of-arms.

So lets say one has a great helm or sugarloaf, well one needs to find an animal that can be mounted -easy if your helm has a flat top, but not so for conical tops or movable visors.

Originally these decoration were made of wood wrapped in leather, or pottery, or even metal sculptures- as they were only worn for a short period, weight was not so much an issue. But can you imaging wearing this for a day at the faire? You would be sore.

So lets explore plastic, you can easily find plastic figures at toy stores, online and best of all educational stores that sell brands like Brio. Once you find a suitable figure, you can bend it using heat, or may have to cut parts, reposition and glue back together. If hollow- a block of wood (like oak or basswood) can be used as a mounting point then use minimal expanding foam (the one used around windows that will not buckle sills) to fill the figure and help lock in your mounting block.

You can then spray-paint your figure and mount it to your helm- here are a couple of things to think about:

A cloth “cape” usually goes under the figure and is made to “fly” about so it should be light material and generally would be made from two contrasting colors to match your coat of arms, with edging to match again that element in your coat of arms- like scalloping or embattlements. This also needs to be secured around the helm – if you have a steel helm- sew magnets into the boarder of the “cape” as this will allow repositioning and removal.

Next if you have a help with a visor….you will have to create a standard that raises the figure and allows the visor to open- not a big issue in an opening ceremony but as I think you may want to drink, eat and breath at a fair it is an issue here. Look at roman helmets for ideas here. It will need to be metal or alternately a light wood (balsa) or plastic cut and colored to work with your figure. This can be permanently affixed using bolts OR if light, go buy some super magnets and glue them to the base of your standard, keep adding until you can’t shake it off holding it upside down. Now its repositionable and removable.

Just where do I scrounge these super magnets you ask. Well any junk hard drive has two of these or you can buy them at hardware stores or craft stores.

Sir Robert

  • Sir Robert
  • Knight of the Order
  • Forum Follower
  • ****
  • Posts: 154
  • A leasanna a chosaint agus
Re: Help fix boring Helm
« Reply #4 on: 2009-12-18, 21:08:25 »
Not sure if this has interest but looking back some threads I found this link:

http://www.crestsunlimited.net/

This company specializes in this, and inexpensive as well. I think Sir Edward was the original finder of this company. :)

Sir Patrick

  • Knight of the Order
  • Forum Acolyte
  • ****
  • Posts: 1,647
  • Nex pro inhonesto, Deus pro totus.
    • The Order of the Marshal
Re: Help fix boring Helm
« Reply #5 on: 2010-10-12, 05:41:51 »

A crest could still be done, but it would have to have a conical base designed to sit on top of the point of the helm, probably. I'm not sure how difficult that would be.

I pondered this with my sugarloaf.  I ended up wrapping the helm in clingwrap, and added multiple layers of papermache until I had formed a cap.  It was quite sturdy, and made a nice base to build off of.

Gules, a chevron argent between three cinquefoils ermine.
"Better to live one day as a lion, than a thousand as a lamb."
Knight, Order of the Marshal

Sir Ancelyn

  • Squire of the Order
  • Forum Follower
  • ***
  • Posts: 178
  • Lux Lucet in Tenebris
    • Thoughts from Firethorn
Re: Help fix boring Helm
« Reply #6 on: 2010-10-12, 09:00:51 »
Very nice solution Red Knight!

Sir Edward

  • Forum Admin
  • Commander of the Order
  • Forum Veteran
  • *****
  • Posts: 9,340
  • Verum et Honorem.
    • ed.toton.org
Re: Help fix boring Helm
« Reply #7 on: 2010-10-12, 13:23:33 »

Hey, that's really looking great! Are you going to add any sort of mantle and torse or just leave it as a crest alone?
Sir Ed T. Toton III
Knight Commander, Order of the Marshal

( Personal Site | My Facebook )

Sir Patrick

  • Knight of the Order
  • Forum Acolyte
  • ****
  • Posts: 1,647
  • Nex pro inhonesto, Deus pro totus.
    • The Order of the Marshal
Re: Help fix boring Helm
« Reply #8 on: 2010-10-12, 15:35:31 »
The torse is done, and I made the pattern for the mantle last night.  Hopefully this weekend I'll get it put together.
Gules, a chevron argent between three cinquefoils ermine.
"Better to live one day as a lion, than a thousand as a lamb."
Knight, Order of the Marshal

Sir William

  • Cogito ergo sum
  • Knight of the Order
  • Forum Veteran
  • ****
  • Posts: 7,154
Re: Help fix boring Helm
« Reply #9 on: 2010-10-12, 15:42:39 »
Wow...you guys are awesome.
The Black Knight, Order of the Marshal
'Per Pale Azure and Sable, a Chevron counterchanged fimbriated argent.' 
“Pride makes a man, it drives him, it is the shield wall around his reputation.  Men die, but reputation does not.”

Sir Brian

  • Knight of the Order
  • Forum Veteran
  • ****
  • Posts: 4,735
  • Felix uxor beatam vitam - Happy Wife Happy Life
    • Order of the Marshal
Re: Help fix boring Helm
« Reply #10 on: 2010-10-12, 16:58:25 »
Huzzah! Well done indeed Red Knight!  ;D
"Chivalry our Strength, Brotherhood our sword"
Vert, on a Chief wavy Argent a Rose Sable,
a Gryphon Segreant Or

[img width=100 height=100]
<a href="http://s221.photobucket.com/user/Tah908/media/LP_Medals_zpsq7zzdvve.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i221.photobucket.

Sir Patrick

  • Knight of the Order
  • Forum Acolyte
  • ****
  • Posts: 1,647
  • Nex pro inhonesto, Deus pro totus.
    • The Order of the Marshal
Re: Help fix boring Helm
« Reply #11 on: 2010-10-12, 17:34:14 »
Thank you all for the kind words!  UPDATE:  My castle is going to be besieged by relatives this weekend, hope it doesn't push back my plans.
Gules, a chevron argent between three cinquefoils ermine.
"Better to live one day as a lion, than a thousand as a lamb."
Knight, Order of the Marshal

Sir Brian

  • Knight of the Order
  • Forum Veteran
  • ****
  • Posts: 4,735
  • Felix uxor beatam vitam - Happy Wife Happy Life
    • Order of the Marshal
Re: Help fix boring Helm
« Reply #12 on: 2010-10-12, 18:18:19 »
Put some oil onto boil?  ;)
"Chivalry our Strength, Brotherhood our sword"
Vert, on a Chief wavy Argent a Rose Sable,
a Gryphon Segreant Or

[img width=100 height=100]
<a href="http://s221.photobucket.com/user/Tah908/media/LP_Medals_zpsq7zzdvve.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i221.photobucket.

Sir William

  • Cogito ergo sum
  • Knight of the Order
  • Forum Veteran
  • ****
  • Posts: 7,154
Re: Help fix boring Helm
« Reply #13 on: 2010-10-12, 19:57:21 »
Ready the ballistae? :)

What?  Am I the only one?  lol
« Last Edit: 2010-10-12, 19:57:45 by Paladin »
The Black Knight, Order of the Marshal
'Per Pale Azure and Sable, a Chevron counterchanged fimbriated argent.' 
“Pride makes a man, it drives him, it is the shield wall around his reputation.  Men die, but reputation does not.”

Sir Wolf

  • He Who is Not to be Named
  • Knight of the Order
  • Forum Veteran
  • ****
  • Posts: 5,389
  • i have too many hats
    • man e faces
Re: Help fix boring Helm
« Reply #14 on: 2010-10-12, 22:57:34 »
lower the portcullis! arm the troops, man the catapults!

how did you make that thing? wow it looks great