Pirate vs. Knight

[Sir Brian]

Talking about the Deadliest Warrior series on Spike TV and the episode where they matched
a pirate against a knight.
http://www.spike.com/full-episode/pirate-vs-knight/31860

They had the pirate win by approximately 65% of the time which I think is a bunch of BS since a
majority of the pirate's kills was attributed to the blunderbuss and grenado. Both are certainly
devestating weapons but not all that reliable in firing or of getting a projectile through the armor
and into a vital "instant" kill area. I also don't think the simulation program took into account that
the 25 kills afforded to the cutless is wrong solely because of the lack of effectiveness of an edged
weapon vs armor. Then there is the offensive capabilities of the armor itself vs an unarmored opponent. 

What I would have really liked to have seen is the knight vs the samuari or ninja. 

[Sir Edward]

Yep, sounds like BS to me. Not to mention the fact that most pirates weren't well trained in the combat arts, whereas knights could afford it. The cutlass was designed for close-up fighting in confined spaces, not penetrating armor. A matchlock firearm would have to be prepared in advance (can't be kept loaded for lengthy periods of time because moisture will ruin the charge, and the match cord has to be lit in advance). And if your one-shot misses, you're screwed.

These sorts of comparisons almost never accomplish anything beyond being an interesting thought experiment. I would suspect any "simulation" to be dubious at best.

[Sir Wolf]

i think that show dumbs down history too much. its like looking at the United Cutlery Catalog for the first time. we were all ooooooo and ahhhhhhhhhh over the 440 stainless steel swords until we read 1 book and where like those are junk. same thing here hehehe. only i haven't watched the show.

[Dragonlover]

the show is okay if you take it for what it is: amusing scenarios that make you want to say
"what if"   Other than that, it's pretty much as I was explaining it to Sir Edward and Sir Brian
at VARF...

[Sir Brian]

the show is okay if you take it for what it is: amusing scenarios that make you want to say
"what if"   Other than that, it's pretty much as I was explaining it to Sir Edward and Sir Brian
at VARF...

lol! I knew I heard about this from somewhere before!
...It must of been those last few nips of scotch you so graciously shared with me from that
weekend that went straight to my memory! 

[Dragonlover]

Scotch? What Scotch?......

[Gnome]

Greetings ok I know this is a little out dated but I had to chime in.

In the Knight v Pirate episode they take no account of the availability of the technology.  They pit the "absolute apex " of pirate tek against the "absolute must haves" of any self respecting Knight.

I have been led to believe that at max there were 4 or 5 grenades on an entire ship to be used in volley against another ship. Not really carried around on land. The availability of the blunder bust is on the same standard.

I know the show is supposed to be entertaining. It just makes my job harder in the real world when I half to reeducate people at fair.   

HeHe that's funny my real world job is at fair it's a tuff life.

Nute & Donna

[Sir Brian]

Greetings ok I know this is a little out dated but I had to chime in.

Huzzah the Gnome is back! Looking forward to seeing you both in October! 

In the Knight v Pirate episode they take no account of the availability of the technology.  They pit the "absolute apex " of pirate tek against the "absolute must haves" of any self respecting Knight.

I have been led to believe that at max there were 4 or 5 grenades on an entire ship to be used in volley against another ship. Not really carried around on land. The availability of the blunder bust is on the same standard.

I know the show is supposed to be entertaining. It just makes my job harder in the real world when I half to reeducate people at fair.

I also don't care for some of their other match ups as well...most don't make any sense at all. 

HeHe that's funny my real world job is at fair it's a tuff life.

The irony is delicious! 

[Sir Gerard de Rodes]

I must say I had the misfortune to watch this............ WHAT A LOAD OF OLD CRAP !!
lol
G

[Sir Brian]

I found a link to an interesting online article along this same general subject except it looks at that
old Samurai vs Knight debate. I think it covered everything quite well.

http://www.thearma.org/essays/knightvs.htm

[Sir William]

Samurai vs Knight would've made a lot more sense to me personally, as they both personify the pinnacle of medieval/renaissance warfare (longbowmen notwithstanding of course).  I know I'm biased but I fully believe that the Knight would've emerged victorious, as he should've against the Pirate.  What ludicrous nonsense; an unarmored lightly armed vagabond sailor can take down a fully armed and armored knight, trained vigorously for years in cavalry and foot warfare?  I KNOW not.  If I were that knight, I would've charged him straight on before he had a chance to load, light or fire the damned thing and skewered him with my spear.

The Deadliest Warrior is pure entertainment disguised as a learning medium; that is its greatest sin- that people will come away believing that BS.  They did get some of them right, like the SWAT vs GSG9 episode for starters...

[Sir Ulrich]

What rubbish TV is always dumbed down for the masses. Almost reminds me of this,
Thats butted mail and they're passing it off as the real thing when real mail could deflect both stabs and slashes. Proves books and whatnot are the only real way of learning about the medieval age.

[Sir Edward]

Heh, yeah. Just because it looks like armor, doesn't mean it is armor. We need a new term I think... ALO: Armor-Like Object.

It's interesting that they never stopped to think: If the armor was that useless, why would you wear all that weight? Not only did they use butted mail, but they also hung it with no backing. The cushioning of the gambeson and the body underneath it also helps to disperse the energy, protecting both the wearer and the armor itself. The more removed it is from its actual use, the less valuable the test.

[Sir William]

Much like the Windlass test where they lay the maille over a block of wood and chop down on it with a sword.  Still, it moves merchandise, no?  That video looked like a bunch of guys just out messin around- you could tell they'd done no study whatsoever of the weapons they were using for their test.

[Sir Edward]

Well I finally got around to watching this, and I have to agree with everything we already said about it. The show wasn't as bad as I expected, but boy do they dumb it down for the masses. It's really a shame, because they could have used the time to make it even more informative and still not lose the excitement. Instead, a lot of the show boiled down to:

"Pirates suck!"

"No, knights suck!"

They mentioned, and then completely ignored the level of martial arts training that a knight had. They put a huge emphasis on gunpowder-- while not entirely misplaced, these are also one-shot weapons that are unreliable, and can't be used at a moment's notice due to needing lit match-cord (at least for the grenades, and possibly the guns if they were match-locks, which were very common during the relevant period before flintlocks took off).

The simulation itself I bet is nothing but a bunch of random numbers generated against a bunch of made up probabilities based on their assessment of those weapon tests. Completely useless.

It was certainly entertaining, but as usual, the results have to be taken with a grain of salt.