Joan of Arc

[Sir_Edward_ReBrook]

I saw The Messenger for the first time the other night. Great flick, despite the ultra-modern dialogue and random array or armour. Embarrassingly, I knew almost nothing about Joan of Arc until the movie inspired me to read up about her online. Her story is almost too amazing to believe, but the witness accounts of her trial alone paint a picture of a woman who must have indeed received divine influence/inspiration. At her trial, she was asked if she knew she was in God's grace.  The question is a scholarly trap.  would have confessed her own guilt. Church doctrine held that no one could be certain of being in God's grace. If she had answered yes, then she would have been charged with heresy. If she had answered no, then she. Her answer was perfect, reflecting linguistic subtlety and humility: "If I am not, may God put me there; and if I am, may God so keep me." How an illiterate 19 year old peasant with no education could speak this way is intriguing.

What do you gentlemen think? A messenger of God or no? And if no, how did she lead nobles and military professionals to victory over the super-disciplined, ultra-organized English, who had humiliatingly defeating the French time and again? And if it was divine influence, why would God choose the French over the English?

[Thorsteinn]

Quick clarifying question~ Are you looking for Catholics to reply only? I ask as the questions themselves contain several assumptions.

-Thorsteinn
Reverend of The Dude. (also the ULC)
Jewish Atheist.

[Sir_Edward_ReBrook]

I just basically find the story amazing. I too have been an athiest before, but I choose to be something else these days. This was not a cognitive decision, but I find that very few of mine actually are. But Joan of Arc. A boss.

[MDJouster]

I always wondered why God would care which cousin ruled France.

[Sir James A]

A messenger of God or no?

Unsure

And if no, how did she lead nobles and military professionals to victory over the super-disciplined, ultra-organized English, who had humiliatingly defeating the French time and again?

She didn't win every battle, she lost a number of them. She won something like 2 out of 3, part of which I think can be attributed to having to battle against unconventional opponents, which negates some routine strategies. And that's without getting into details of troop sizes, battlefields, etc; a large number of factors in victory / defeat which have nothing to do with her.

And if it was divine influence, why would God choose the French over the English?

Because the French never win anything on their own?

[Mike W.]

We can no more say she is a messenger of God with any certainty, than we can say God exists with any certainty. Without concrete evidence, making such a judgment and presenting it as historical fact would be an offense against historical scholarship. A good historian can only say that she was simply a maiden from Lorraine who lead the French armies against the British. Any notions about her holiness, her clairvoyance, or her sainthood are better left to clergy than historians, as none of that could ever be founded on empirical data.

I'd be interested to study the historiography of Joan of Arc over the last few centuries to see how the scholarly approaches to her life and opinions regarding her have changed over time.

[Sir William]

It is an entertaining story taken at face value; questions about religion and its validity versus faith are best left for better heads than mine.