Geek Talk: Sauron vs.

[Sir Nate]

Ok so I've been conversing with friends about two things.
Who is more powerful, Sauron or morgoth(Melkor)
And who would win Sauron or Vader?

[Ian]

Who is more powerful, Sauron or morgoth(Melkor)

Morgoth is literally the root of all evil in Arda.  If the Ainur are analogs for Angels, that would make Morgoth the equivalent of the Devil himself.  Sauron is like one of the major demons of hell compared to Morgoth as the Devil.  I would say they're on different levels, Morgoth being the more powerful.

[Sir Nate]

Who is more powerful, Sauron or morgoth(Melkor)

Morgoth is literally the root of all evil in Arda.  If the Ainur are analogs for Angels, that would make Morgoth the equivalent of the Devil himself.  Sauron is like one of the major demons it  of hell compared to Morgoth as the Devil.  I would say they're on different levels, Morgoth being the more powerful.

But did Sauron not eventually surpass even his power?
Not evil persay, but power?

[Thorsteinn]

Vader is more powerful because only he is cool enough to be voiced by James Earl Jones.

[Sir Nate]

Vader is more powerful because only he is cool enough to be voiced by James Earl Jones.

Lol.

[Frater deTyr]

Who is more powerful, Sauron or morgoth(Melkor)

Morgoth is literally the root of all evil in Arda.  If the Ainur are analogs for Angels, that would make Morgoth the equivalent of the Devil himself.  Sauron is like one of the major demons it  of hell compared to Morgoth as the Devil.  I would say they're on different levels, Morgoth being the more powerful.

But did Sauron not eventually surpass even his power?
Not evil persay, but power?

Dr. Tolkien continually makes the point that the damage done by Melkor/Morgoth was bad enough that it nearly destroys Arda (Earth).  Sauron (whom Tolkien describes as "merely a servant") did not possess nearly the power of Melkor, who was the greatest of all the Valar, prior to his fall.

Per Tolkien's writings, Melkor/Morgoth will return through the Door of Night, to finish the destruction he begun, only to be taken down with the help of Eru (God) and the agency of all the Free Folk (including all the Second Folk who died and went before---Men).

[Sir William]

Melkor, by far.  Sauron was his apprentice/servant, nothing more.  It was only by his removal (and the estrangement of the Ainu from the world of elves and men) that Sauron could ever take power to begin with.  Even so, by canon, Sauron was one of the lesser Maiar, as was Gandalf, (lesser in reference to the Valar) and he was granted more power in order to combat Sauron's evil - as powerful as those two are, they did not wield the power of the Valar, only small portions of it.

[Sir Wolf]

[Sir Douglas]

Yes, but the important question is: Ginger or Mary Ann? 

[Sir William]

I guess Wolf is subtly reminding me of how much of a nerd I really am.  Well he is, too!

Excellent question, Squire.  Mary Ann if I'm wanting to kick back and have a beer, Ginger if I'm wanting a night on the town w/out having to wait in line to get into VIP.  lol

[Sir Nate]

Page is befuddled now.

[FreelancerJericho]

Melkor beats Sauron. However Sauron beats Vader in general. That's how I see it in my eyes. Sauron is pretty much Melkor's servant anyway. Vader's force and skill would be nothing unless he could separate the wring from Sauron. Since Vader is slower and doesn't do all the crazy flips and stuff he would easily fall prey to Sauron's mace. Melor beats all though.

[Sir Nate]

I think I understand.
Morgoth, is Evil. The very emotion of it was of his mustering. You cannot surpass that kind of power or malice.

Also I have recently heard that Tom Bombadil is actually a Valar?

[Ian]

Tom Bombadil's origin is a permanent unknown.  Tolkien apparently even referenced it as one of the things that shall always remain mysterious, even to him.

The theories on his origin are quite varied.  We do know that he's been around for a looooooong time, back to the First Age long time.  But his origins will forever be a mystery quite simply because Tolkien never wrote them down (that we know of)

[Sir Nate]

Tom Bombadil's origin is a permanent unknown.  Tolkien apparently even referenced it as one of the things that shall always remain mysterious, even to him.

The theories on his origin are quite varied.  We do know that he's been around for a looooooong time, back to the First Age long time.  But his origins will forever be a mystery quite simply because Tolkien never wrote them down (that we know of)

I heard it was a toy of his. My impression on Bombadil in the books is that he is the land that is the shire and the shire is him. He can have control over anything of the shire. I remember in the books he said he has no power over the wraiths, because he is not their master.