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Author Topic: Suspending a Leg Harness  (Read 57756 times)

Ian

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Re: Suspending a Leg Harness
« Reply #45 on: 2014-09-16, 18:16:40 »
Oh!  Sorry for the misunderstanding.

I have to make a new pourpoint eventually anyway.  Mine does not meet vetting standards because it is machine quilted.  It needs to be hand quilted.  It's also a giant pain in the butt to tailor it just right to get it to support a leg harness without transferring any weight to my shoulders.  So just out of convenience I would consider doing this method since it's historic and would save me some grief on the next CdB pourpoint project.
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Don Jorge

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Re: Suspending a Leg Harness
« Reply #46 on: 2014-09-16, 23:25:09 »
Yeah watching Jessica Finley make this green hand quilted CdB for Sean makes me cringe...so much work and details!

Ian

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Re: Suspending a Leg Harness
« Reply #47 on: 2014-09-17, 00:22:38 »
Yeah watching Jessica Finley make this green hand quilted CdB for Sean makes me cringe...so much work and details!

The martial version of that cote need not be so tedious. 
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Sir James A

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Re: Suspending a Leg Harness
« Reply #48 on: 2014-09-17, 14:20:46 »
Oh!  Sorry for the misunderstanding.

I have to make a new pourpoint eventually anyway.  Mine does not meet vetting standards because it is machine quilted.  It needs to be hand quilted.  It's also a giant pain in the butt to tailor it just right to get it to support a leg harness without transferring any weight to my shoulders.  So just out of convenience I would consider doing this method since it's historic and would save me some grief on the next CdB pourpoint project.

Ah, that makes perfect sense, I forgot about the vetting. If you think it's hard to tailor for you, try tailoring it where your stomach is bigger than your waist, and it constantly wants to drag itself down to the thinner area. My pourpoint needs those shoulder straps lol.
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Ian

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Re: Suspending a Leg Harness
« Reply #49 on: 2015-03-12, 21:46:26 »
I decided to revisit this and prototype the idea in some cow hide I had lying around.

It functions identically to a textile support which is what I had hoped it would do.  The leather edging along the top hem prevents the 'belt' from stretching when you buckle it tight.  This is important so that it doesn't shift after wearing it.  It offers the same flexibility and comfort as a textile, and none of the restrictiveness of a thick c-belt.  It also distributes the weight over a large surface area so you don't get digging in to the hips as you would with a thinner belt alternative.  You retain the same range of motion you would with an arming doublet, including comfortably sitting down.

This method will also work for maille chausses, and you can easily whip-stitch a maille skirt to the bottom hem to suspend that comfortably as well.  The only reason I would choose this method *over* the arming doublet is for ease of tailoring in the textile garment, or convenience.  If you do a time period that has a huge gap in knowledge when it comes to suspending legs, this is a viable solution, and dare I say superior to some of the more uncomfortable or inflexible methods out there.

A Charles de Blois style pourpoint is what I normally use to suspend my legs comfortably, but I will be the first to admit that the tailoring of this garment can be tough when you absolutely want to ensure that 0 weight transfer goes to your shoulders.  It's quite achievable (I get absolutely no weight transfer to my shoulders in my version), but it may be beyond the comfort level of some folks.  It involves making sure that when laced tightly the garment is completely girdling the hips and waist, and that there is enough vertical length in the garment to prevent tugging at the shoulders when weight is pulling the hem with gravity.  It also can't be too much vertical length that it appears in excess and looks messy.  If that's not something you want to mess with but seek a comfortable alternative, the leather arming girdle is comparatively simple to engineer.  For comparison my hand-sewn CdB pictured below represents about 100 hrs of work, the hand-sewn leather arming girdle represents about 5.



This is the speculative alternative:



« Last Edit: 2015-03-13, 18:23:04 by Ian »
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Sir William

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Re: Suspending a Leg Harness
« Reply #50 on: 2015-03-13, 13:41:52 »
Dude, you are filled with all kinds of awesome sauce- I caught the thread on AA.
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Re: Suspending a Leg Harness
« Reply #51 on: 2015-03-13, 18:07:59 »
yah this is really awesome. I'll need to make or get one somehow, it will be useful once I have Mail chausses plus my cuisses.
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Re: Suspending a Leg Harness
« Reply #52 on: 2015-03-15, 11:00:36 »
Excellent job Sir Ian! I will have to add this to my 'TO DO' list! Do you prefer the fit and function of this over a Pourpoint?
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Ian

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Re: Suspending a Leg Harness
« Reply #53 on: 2015-03-15, 18:24:15 »
Excellent job Sir Ian! I will have to add this to my 'TO DO' list! Do you prefer the fit and function of this over a Pourpoint?

If you're wearing a properly tailored arming garment, the fit and function should be identical.  That was the point of this venture into experimental archaeology, to see if I could reproduce something as comfortable as a properly tailored arming doublet without the doublet.  Having just vetted both this (with a required modification, the arming patches will need to be relocated to the inside in keeping with the aesthetic of medieval leatherwork), and the new hand sewn CdB, I intend to try each out for a full day at MTA this weekend and compare.

If for some reason the leather girdle functions better, then it would be an indication that my CdB has something wrong with it's tailoring.  I would prefer the girdle as an alternative, not a replacement for a proper arming garment.  From the historical side, we know that armed men were using arming doublets to suspend leg harness.  We also know that there was some other means of suspending a leg harness since there is imagery of men in harness with clearly no visible means of support on their exposed doublets, yet their leg harness has to be supported by something.  We may never know what that something is, but this is one of the good guesses.  For earlier periods when there was no arming doublet, like the age of maille, we know from text that some sort of 'belt' or 'girdle' was used.  But what it looked like, no one knows.  Again, this is a good guess.  If it works as  intended it will certainly be a superior alternative to most of what the people wearing maille are utilizing right now (c-belts, thin belts, vests etc), and in keeping with the vague sources.

It would also work very well for a person interested in wearing a maille skirt.  You can whip-stitch a maille skirt to the hem of the leather girdle, and at the same time use it to support your leg harness from the inside.
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Ian

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Re: Suspending a Leg Harness
« Reply #54 on: 2015-03-17, 20:30:42 »
I've modified this as was recommended.  The arming tabs were cut off and re-stitched to the inside.  This is in keeping more with an appropriate medieval leatherworking aesthetic and also presents a much cleaner look.  This also makes the girdle more compatible with a maille skirt.  If you whipped a skirt to the leather hem, you could point your legs underneath with no interference. 

« Last Edit: 2015-03-17, 20:31:57 by Ian »
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Lord Dane

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Re: Suspending a Leg Harness
« Reply #55 on: 2015-03-17, 22:14:32 »
Exceptional work Ian!!! :) I love the girdle. It looks quite comfortable and the workmanship shows. You definitely gave me some ideas for my harness.
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Sir Humphrey

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Re: Suspending a Leg Harness
« Reply #56 on: 2015-03-18, 13:54:33 »
When/If I finally get some mail chauses, I'll be making me one of these girdles.  I think Ian and others have broken the code.  I'll have to admit, that I no longer have acessable hip bones.  Age and exeriance does to a man.  Maybe I can get it tight enough that it wont slip down and tangle me up.

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Sir Rodney

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Re: Suspending a Leg Harness
« Reply #57 on: 2015-03-19, 05:02:10 »
I'll have to admit, that I no longer have acessable hip bones.  Age and exeriance does to a man.  Maybe I can get it tight enough that it wont slip down and tangle me up.

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Ha!  I discussed that very issue with Ian on AA.  :o
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Sir William

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Re: Suspending a Leg Harness
« Reply #58 on: 2015-03-19, 14:43:31 »
Oh!  Sorry for the misunderstanding.

I have to make a new pourpoint eventually anyway.  Mine does not meet vetting standards because it is machine quilted.  It needs to be hand quilted.  It's also a giant pain in the butt to tailor it just right to get it to support a leg harness without transferring any weight to my shoulders.  So just out of convenience I would consider doing this method since it's historic and would save me some grief on the next CdB pourpoint project.

Good sir, if you do decide to let that machined one go, keep me in mind?  I know I might be slightly more 'girthy' than you but I'm working on that.  lol
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Re: Suspending a Leg Harness
« Reply #59 on: 2015-04-21, 01:25:58 »
My friend samuel Petterson made a linen one.
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