Chain Mail

[Aiden of Oreland]

I've come to understand that while gambesons do indeed date to the 10th century, their use was not widely adopted until the 13th century. While no specific sources come to mind, I've seen most historians agree that gambesons are not widely depicted in pictorial sources until the 13th century. It is possible for them to have been used, just not probable.

You might find it uncomfortable not to wear a gambeson. I have worn my butted without one and it killed my neck and shoulders. The belt can only relieve so much.

thats just it, there are no sources for gamesons or aketons before the crusades. the site james barker had said the europeans looking at the sarasins wondering about their padded garments.

the roman version isn't padded, save maybe the shoulder area and there are no pics or surviving examples, we only have the writings.

History can be so mysterious some times, but that's half the fun.

[Mike W.]

You might find it uncomfortable not to wear a gambeson.

We wouldn't be in this hobby if we were concerned about being comfortable.

[Sir William]

There's no might about it, it will be uncomfortable.  As it is a hobby, one might become less enthusiastic about it if pain becomes something that must be considered for each outing.  I'm just speaking from personal experience here.

[Mike W.]

I've been to the hospital twice due to reenacting. It just takes dedication to history!!!
(At least we don't go so far as to have period correct dysentery).

[Sir William]

I hear you.  That sort of brings to mind a particular jousting re-enactor who was of the mind that you hadn't really participated until you were sporting numerous 'armor bites' (his were due to ill-fitting armor not made specifically for him); I think dedication levels differ with the individual and it should be the goal that hospital visits be kept to a minimum for what we term a hobby.  That said, you can be as armored as you like and still suffer injury- it does happen.

But we're talking about personal comfort- and I still see no reason to go w/out a gambeson simply because it wasn't in widespread use at the time; that it can be traced back that far is good enough for me.  Obviously, ymmv.

[Aiden of Oreland]

I say do what you like, if you find that you do not need one than don't get one. Just go forth with consideration that's all. You can always buy a gambeson if you need one. just don't tailor your mail to your exact body shape, so if you find that you need some padding to relieve the stress, you'll have room.

[Sir Nate]

They use real swords in reenacting don't they? Sign me up!

[Sir James A]

I've been to the hospital twice due to reenacting. It just takes dedication to history!!!
(At least we don't go so far as to have period correct dysentery).

You have your standards, Sir Wolf has his.

[Sir Ulrich]

Well when Elliot visited this week with me I got to handle some of his "allbeststuff" maille. It's better quality than Icefalcon. It didnt scratch me at all nor tear threads in my gambeson. Also the flat punched rings all face ONE way so it doesnt look as uneven. My battlemerchant and GDFB maille doesnt even do that. Only complaint is it isnt as tailored as my self tailored hauberk. I may just pick one hauberk with integrated mittens and coif one day just for 12th century reenacting when I can. The rivets on the inside stick out only a little bit and they're peened to not be sharp either. It's also quite tough stuff and could bet it could stop a sharp weapon honestly.

[Don Jorge]

Well when Elliot visited this week with me I got to handle some of his "allbeststuff" maille. It's better quality than Icefalcon. It didnt scratch me at all nor tear threads in my gambeson. Also the flat punched rings all face ONE way so it doesnt look as uneven. My battlemerchant and GDFB maille doesnt even do that. Only complaint is it isnt as tailored as my self tailored hauberk. I may just pick one hauberk with integrated mittens and coif one day just for 12th century reenacting when I can. The rivets on the inside stick out only a little bit and they're peened to not be sharp either. It's also quite tough stuff and could bet it could stop a sharp weapon honestly.

I am glad to hear that! I definitely will be ordering my aventail from them then...and he does tailor stuff if you ask him to...or so I think I read that somewhere...

[Don Jorge]

http://allbeststuff.com/c-medieval-chainmail-armor/c-Chain-Mail-Camail/9-mm-Flat-Washer-Camail-with-helmet-extensions

Does this mean I won't have to tailor it to have it properly attach to a bascinet? It looks like it comes with that round shape in the front for your face...Sir Ian, you may never have to tailor maile again!

[Ian]

http://allbeststuff.com/c-medieval-chainmail-armor/c-Chain-Mail-Camail/9-mm-Flat-Washer-Camail-with-helmet-extensions

Does this mean I won't have to tailor it to have it properly attach to a bascinet? It looks like it comes with that round shape in the front for your face...Sir Ian, you may never have to tailor maile again!

Unless it happens to exactly fit your bascinet, it will require tailoring, or it will bunch up in places or be stretched in places etc.  The nice thing with that is it would require less tailoring, because you maybe could cut off the face triangles and attach them elsewhere instead of building them from scratch, but no maille goes un-tailored for the correct fit unless you happen to be very lucky.

Plus, those triangles are wrong.  They should be right triangles to give the appropriate effect.  And they probably need to be a lot taller, see Mac's drawing here:

[scott2978]

I concur. Plus, it's probably the easiest maille tailoring you'll ever do.

That does not mean it will be easy, BTW

Scott

[Ian]

I'm about to take the plunge and make a purchase at Custom Chainmail.  I saw him advertising over on the AA, and I've emailed back and forth a couple times.  He does shirts to custom measurements, which is a really nice feature.  I'm going to replace my pin riveted franken-haubergeon with a wedge riveted more fitted version.  I'll be sure to let everyone know how it goes.

[Sir Ulrich]

I'm sure you'll be more satisfied with wedge riveted maille, it's so much smoother and doesnt tear gambesons up nearly so easily. Just looked at their stuff and they do offer it in a 38 inch chest which is my chest size though I aint making anymore purchases with maille as I already have a tailored hauberk.