Ouch.

[Das Bill]

But as far as "bang for your buck" goes, how are they?

If you can't afford anything else, they'll do, but they balance poorly. They feel too short to be a two handed sword, but balance very far along the blade making them sluggish for a one hander. I prefer them as single handers.

Are they safe for sparring? (main concern)

That's hard for me to answer, as I don't know how you do free play. I've used them, and they're as safe/unsafe as a wooden waster is. (And I'm going to be pedantic here for a second, but there's no such thing as "sparring" with a weapon, despite what everyone says... you fence with a weapon, you free play, you bout, but when you spar, by definition, you are doing so empty handed. )

Do they handle anything like a sword?

Not like a very good sword, no.

Is the handling bad enough to prevent proper technique?

Well, no. But you need proper technique in order to handle them well.

(knowing cold steel, I bet they're at least gonna last for a long time)

Well, being plastic, they will probably survive the apacolypse.

Many of us have given Cold Steel feedback on how to improve these *imensely* with only minor modifications that shouldn't affect the price much, but alas, they haven't done anything yet. We'll see what the future holds, but right now I give these a rating of 6 out of 10, and that factors in the price. I don't hate them, but they aren't good, either.

[SirNathanQ]

Ok. Yeah, I'm trying to start a fencing club at my school, and as we have an immensely low low budget, that's really about the only way we could get "safe" swords into 15-20 peoples hands ASAP. Whenever we need some nice handling, I'll bring in my tinker.
 

[Sir Edward]

That's a good way to look at it, I think. If you just need something crappy to get something in the hands of 20 people, then they're probably a good starting point. I'd encourage anyone serious about continuing to upgrade to a better trainer, of course.

[Das Bill]

Ok. Yeah, I'm trying to start a fencing club at my school, and as we have an immensely low low budget, that's really about the only way we could get "safe" swords into 15-20 peoples hands ASAP. Whenever we need some nice handling, I'll bring in my tinker.
 

For that, they'll do. But if you're on a real budget, I suggest using some hard wood dowels. They're dirt cheap, and they're a good enough to learn basics. If anyone wants to have something nicer, they have to buy it themselves.

[Thorsteinn]

OK. I'm a little lateon this but what the heck...
I have 7 years of Tae Kwon Do, 1 year of Foire HEMA, and 11 years of being an SCA Heavy in the West Kingdom.

So, Do y'all have questions about injury rates and whatnot?

C'mon ask me something. I'm sick with the flu and unemployed. Gimme something to do.

-Ivan

[Sir Edward]

Oh yes, please do. I haven't done SCA heavy (watched a bit, but haven't participated). I've read about people peeing blood if they didn't take the kidney protection seriously enough and the like (as you saw at the start of the thread). But I don't know first hand about the SCA's injury rates. I know there's a certain amount of emphasis on power, so it has me curious.

In our HEMA work, we avoid injury most of the time (except for the occasional bruise or swollen knuckle), but finger breaks happen from time to time when people aren't careful. Longpoint saw a lot more injury since the competition seemed to encourage people to ramp up the power.

[Sir Rodney]

My list of SCA injuries is relatively minor considering I've been swinging a stick for more than 12 years.  Sprained ankles, heat exhaustion, and a broken thumb top my list.  Note that all of these were preventable on my part.  Taking care when stepping over "dead bodies" and trotting on rough terrain, taking more frequent water breaks when you know full well that your body is baking in the sun and wearing properly strapped / formed gauntlets would have prevented all these injuries.

The only injury that I could not have prevented myself was a concussion many years ago.  I was "legged" and fighting from my knees (think Dorf does medieval), my next recollection was everyone staring down at me saying "Are you OK?"  Evidently, our line collapsed and a guy with a longsword came around the end and clocked me in the back of the helm during the heat of the moment.  He was aghast at the injury he caused and was very apologetic; I hold no grudge against him.  Unfortunately, I didn't go to the hospital and instead suffered for a few days.  If anything, I'm mad at myself for not treating this injury properly.

[Thorsteinn]

The injury rates (IE need a doctor) of SCA fighting are less than professional Ping Pong and have been that way for 45 odd years (according to the insurance company).

In 11 years in armour I've gotten: Some Sciatic Nerve damage, 2 concussions (no loss of consciousness),  one temp damaged shoulder nerve, and many bruises, welts and contusions.

In one year of HEMA: A broken knuckle, a separated rib, and 4 partially dislocated ribs.

In 7 yrs of TKD padded sparring: 1 partly broken shin, 3 concussions (1 knocked me out), 1 dislocated toe, 4 sprained ankles, 1 sprained wrist, and perhaps a hairline broken finger.

In 27 years of SCA fighting my mom has been concussed a few times, and bruised alot, but her 2 worst ones are when she stepped in a gopher hole and broke her ankle, and when she, as a lefty, didn't wear sufficient forearm protection and got her arm broken (to this day she admits fault as she had been warned it could happen).

As you know, in a full speed & full contact sport shite can happen. As for pissing blood, well, that shouldn't happen if the individual wore proper kidney protection (and has never happened to anyone I know), but it does. Sometimes armour fails, the shot comes in funky, the guy's protection actually WASN'T What he claimed, ETC, but it has never happened to anyone I know and I come from perhaps 'the' hardest hitting Kingdom in the known world.

As for the power well... If I swung my tourney sword to your unprotected head at regular force levels I could easily see your death as a result. HOWEVER, I have taken a broadsword shot to the ribs just above my curiass and with nothing but my shirt in the way and had only a big bruise to show for it along with a lack of breath.

I can also say that in 45+ years the SCA has never had a death from this stuff which is better than PeeWee Football (scary no?). Also there is a derogatory term for folks in the SCA who wear just the minimums here in the West: Pad-Boy.

As to specific injury rates.... mebe the Kingdom Chiurgeon would know? Chirurgeon@westkingdom.org

Got's more? I am still sick.

-Ivan

Who can put his fist through 2 pine boards and his elbow through 5, and thus is listed as lethal twards shelving.

[Sir James A]

Wow Ivan, that's an impressive injury list. I'm surprised at those HEMA injuries; how did that happen?

I've heard that the East Kingdoms of the SCA tend to "rhino" more and hit harder as a result. When I did a season of it, I wore full-plate 15th/16th century roughly italian style armor - horseman's pauldrons, hinged cuirass w/faulds, full rerebrace/vambrace/16th cent elbows, full cuisse w/1 wrap plate (shield side), full greaves, and a generic bargrill helm. I had plenty of bruises, though I'd wager mostly due to the borrowed cuirass pinching and impacting my chest - I don't think I ever had a blow take the wind out of me. All I ever participated in was the local pick-up fighter practice - no large melees or tourneys. It was fun, but not really my thing, especially with the persona and all that.

Pardon me, I have to go hide my shelving...

[Sir Edward]

Yeah, the persona thing is interesting. I think the lines get blurred a lot, so it doesn't have to be a deal-breaker. I remember seeing some discussions (lightly, with no real answers) touching on knighthood, and whether it's really the person, or the persona, that gets knighted.

In a way, I don't think you really need to make a distinction, since I think the function of the persona is really just to set a historical context for yourself, and isn't really meant as a form of role-playing, though people probably go to both extremes I would guess.

[Sir Rodney]

I enjoy the escape mostly.  The persona thing is fun since our group is a bunch of mercenaries for hire, even though we never accept any real compensation for a contract.  It's all in fun.

It's never really possible to seperate your persona from the real you, whether a knight or not.  If you're a prick in real life, you're a prick in persona.

The vast majority of SCA injuries I've seen have occured at major events.  Hundreds of (non-too-thin and usually hung over) weekend warriors clashing for hours and hours on rough terrain under the glaring sun takes its toll. Yes, there's always a rhino or two and there's always a whiner or two, but most have a GREAT time.  (The parties tend to get out of hand as well)   

[Sir William]

I've yet to witness an SCA event...on my list of things to do.

[Sir Edward]

If you get the chance, Pennsic is an event unlike any other. Typical attendance is over 10k, sometimes as high as 14k. There's classes, shopping, combat, archery, parties, and more. The shopping alone typically takes us about 2 days when we go.

[Sir William]

That's the one, Sir Edward, Pennsic.  One of the SBG forumites was telling me about it- he goes for the entire affair, sets up camp and everything.  I imagine he's not the only one, just the only one I know.  Does everyone on here attend?

My wife's ADD wouldn't stand a chance but I'd love to go.

[Thorsteinn]

Wow Ivan, that's an impressive injury list. I'm surprised at those HEMA injuries; how did that happen?

A broken knuckle: Did slow work with wooden wasters and caught my opponents blade on my finger. I also broke my instructors pinky when he decided to use padded motorcycle gauntlets during sparring and did a stop thrust at the absolute worst, stupidest time.

A separated rib: Landed on a hidden root after being thrown during a demo in a park when we did a dagger attack and defense at full speed.

4 partially dislocated ribs: During Scottish Backhold practice.