New to this World...

[Edward Jeagal]

You could always get armour of the Maximilian style without the fluting.

[Sir Edward]

Just keep in mind that generally speaking, as you get later in the period, the armor historically was made with better armoring technology, which equates to more complex shaping and more articulated pieces, which means it'll cost more to you.

A lot of folks will start with mid-late 14th century plate armor because it's cheaper to reproduce, and is during the height of heraldic pageantry and before plate armor started evolving into jousting armor.

By the 16th century, a lot of the armor was become more specialized to the joust, but not all. Some of the jousting specific features that were added included haute guards (those wings that stick up from the pauldrons), affixed helms (little or no neck mobility, frog-face helms, etc), lance rests, interchangeable plates that bolt on to the breastplate, asymmetrical pauldrons, and so on.

One of the nice things about 15th century Gothic armor is that there is plenty of artwork showing it being used on foot as well as on horseback, including judicial combat.

As an aside, generally speaking you would not use a gambeson or aketon under plate armor. The armor itself is meant to absorb most of the impact, so the arming doublet/coat tended to be a bit thinner than a gambeson would be. It might have some light padding, but ideally the plates needed to be close-fitting to distribute the impact.

[Aiden of Oreland]

Hail and welcome friend! You will fit in among us I guarantee! And a nice place to get some custom fitting armor for SCA is armstreet.com who have a good selection of armor and medieval clothing.

[Sir James A]

You could always get armour of the Maximilian style without the fluting.

Armor of Wladislas

[Edward Jeagal]

Armor of Wladislas

Ah cheers mate. Anyways, here's a pic of a very similar set of armour...in colour! Also like what everybody already said, pick a period you like and go for the well-fitted arming clothes first. How much time and money are you willing to spend on a kit? Knowing those answers will be extremely helpful.

If any of the info I say is wrong, please feel free to correct me. I'm always keen on learning.

[Don Jorge]

Illusion is known for long wait times. And then being late too. If you have around 18 months or so to wait, it might be worth a try. They're quoting a year for orders, I recall seeing orders that were a year past the original delivery date and still unfinished (though a few years back).

Maximillian armor is heavily fluted. Open up a home equity line of credit or something. Roughly $15,000 for a cheap one out of mild steel. If you want heat treated steel, I'd say you're talking $20,000+ range. It's one of the styles I'd love to have, few people make, and I'll never have unless I hit the lotto or end up having kids who hit the lotto...

Transitional armor is MUCH more reasonable in price. It is also easier to get it fitting properly, whereas plate has very little forgiveness in fitment. I've spent many hours getting mine tweaked to a decent fitment. As far as transitional, I have a GDFB bascinet, coat of plates (aluminum), and (in stainless) steel spaulders, steel knee and elbow cops, splint arms and splint legs. I think it was around $1,000 and since it's almost all stainless (except the helm and coat of plates), it won't rust. However, I got the coat of plates used for a steal price of $100 or so. I don't have gauntlets for it, but you could probably get a similar suit for about $1,000 roughly. If you want to check out Mad Matt's site (he made the spaulders/splint arms/splint legs, and my sabatons in my avatar pic), here's his site:

http://www.madmattsarmory.com/

Sir Brian should be able to refer you to sources for his armor. I believe it is also Mercenary's Tailor, but I'm not 100% sure.

Okay, lets talk transitional period and metals then...for combat what type of metals should I be looking for at each piece? 16 gauge? 14 gauge? Mild Steel (does that just mean cold rolled?), Blue Steel, Satin Polish, Mirror Polish, Stainless Steel (as strong as steel but rust resistant or is it weaker and not combat armor material?)? What type of metal should my chain mail be? What types of coat of plates are there and what should I be looking at? I will definitely be wearing a surcoat over my armor so maybe the coat of plates doesn't have to be that elaborate? What can I skimp on and what should I pay the big bucks for?

Gah so many questions

[Sir Edward]

For the most part, if you're going to fight in the armor, you're probably looking at 16ga thickness. Most SCA kingdoms requires 16ga armor, and 14ga for the helm, if I recall.

For HEMA use, generally 16ga will work as well. Any thinner, and the armor will take a beating, but thicker will just be very, very heavy.

Historically, armor tended to be 16ga or thinner. The process of shaping the complex curvature of the armor had the benefit of allowing the metal to get quite thin in places where the curvature provided the strength, limiting the weight while maximizing the strength. Reproductions are usually made from sheet metal, so there is less of this happening, and a more consistent thickness, which just means more weight compared to historical armor.

In terms of the actual metals, "mild steel" is just plain steel, and will be the cheapest. Spring steel is a good step up, since it's an alloy intended for use in springs, it has a lot of flex (without taking a set) and will resist taking damage. Stainless is the most expensive because it's hard to work with. It's very rigid (and will also resist damage to a point), and has the benefit of being really hard to rust up.

Another alternative is aluminum. Completely non-historical, and non-functional. It's also expensive because it's hard to work with (for being soft, rather than extra-hard like stainless). The main reason to get aluminum is for renfaire/LARP where you want it to look good, but be lightweight.

What sort of polish/finish you want is largely a matter of taste. But highly polished steel will resist rust better than a dull finish, because the small pits and crevices in the surface act as anchor points for rust to take hold. Because of this, once it starts to show rust, it'll rust more easily again in the future. Also, a higher shine will usually be more expensive because it's more labor intensive.

My 14th century armor is from Mercenary's Tailor, and it's very cost effective since it's mild steel, and a satin finish. It's what we might call "munitions grade armor", in that it's functional and cost effective, without going the extra mile to be extra pretty.

[Ian]

As far as thickness is concerned, if you're using hardened spring steel you can easily go with 18 gauge or lighter and be just fine unless you plan on doing HMB or Battle of the Nations style bludgeoning. 

Polishing doesn't affect function (unless it's very rough, then it will attract rust with greater frequency), but it definitely affects cost.  I prefer a satin finish on my armor, as a mirror finish is all but impossible to maintain, and I find it annoying to look at.

I recommend spending as much as you can afford on plate armor.  Ideally it should be heat treated spring steel, and custom fit to you.  Once you start to compromise, you will to varying degree begin to degrade function and comfort, until you go with very cheap mild steel armors that are improperly shaped and articulated that don't fit you and don't move properly.  The nicer the armor, the more you'll enjoy wearing it.  You absolutely get what you pay for in the armor world.

But all of that is irrelevant if you have crappy arming garments.  The foundation of the armor, that is the clothes you're wearing under them that provide the anchor points to suspend your armor make or break even the nicest suit of custom fit high gothic plate.  Always start with good arming garments.  The armor must be sized to you wearing them anyway, so avoid the temptation to start with the steel bits.

**EDIT** For the sake of full disclosure, SCA armor is not historical armor.  My above advice concerns historical armor or armor used for HEMA/WMA.  SCA armor is designed for a very specific sport and has very different requirements than real historical armor.  Therefore, styling and shaping are often compromised to make the armor work for their sport.  The rules of the sport also put you at a distinct disadvantage by wearing a plate harness.  Also, never EVER purchase SCA armor before trying the sport and consulting with your local marshallate.  They will get you in loner gear to see if you even like it, and if you do, they will provide the specific rules for their region, because armor requirements vary locally.

[Sir William]

SCA standards say that at a minimum the armor must be 16 gauge in thickness; if you're speaking of mild steel, a lot of the fighters go heavier at 14ga and 12ga for their helms at the least.  Mild steel is just that, usually cold-rolled, untempered, unhardened.  Blued steel is just steel that's been blued or blackened, it has the same hardness or lack thereof as the steel it was before the blueing process was begun.  The different polishes (satin, mirror, etc) only deal with how shiny you want your armor to be.  I have noted a marked departure from the super shiny harnesses of the late 90s and early 00s- for myself, I prefer the satin finish.  Its a good look w/out being gaudy.  Stainless tends to be somewhat softer than mild steel which makes it less palatable for weapons applications but perfectly suitable for armor.

Spring steel can be thinner because it is harder by nature, and as such, it'll cost more.  Then there's spring stainless which just means it won't rust as much but it'll be more costly still.  Then there's spring steel, tempered - as far as I know, it is the 'Cadillac' of steels - it can be very thin, very light and still very protective.  Not to mention, pretty expensive.  You can get a full mild suit for about $2000, give or take, depending on how much plate you want.  For the same suit in tempered spring steel, multiply by 5 at the least. 

Of course, living history reenactors would and should shy away from anything other than mild or tempered high carbon steel; all else (stainless, spring, titanium, mithril, vibranium, adamantium etc) is modern invention.

Coats of plates...you said transitional period so you're looking for something along the lines of the Visby CoP; plenty of places to get those made, I've dealt with three different armorers and the results were more or less satisfactory, but I would only put forth two of them - Winter Tree Crafts, LLC and Mad Matt's Armory; MMa is in Canada though so the shipping charges may be of concern.  WTC is in Vermont but he's scaled his workload way back as he's currently building a new house and shop on recently purchased land...he's worked me into his schedule but only as a favor to me as we've had good dealings in the past.  Since a CoP is made up of plates riveted/sewn onto a leather facing you don't have to go high hog with stainless or super expensive steel; mine is being made of 18 ga mild steel plates- since they overlap, it'll be plenty protective.  A CoP will run you $200-500 depending on armorer, materials, specs, etc.

You should probably avoid skimping- it will only lead to you replacing that part with a more expensive and better part, if you have the willpower, save yourself the trouble and go for what you really want.  In this particular path of interest, as with most things, you get what you pay for and if you're needing it for its primary purpose of protection, you'll not want to skimp on it at all.

I was just thinking...you might get away with being skimpy on the undergarments; braies, chausses, under tunic - things not easily seen when in full kit or harness.  If you have or know anyone who has skills in sewing, you can save yourself a good deal of money by working with patterns and sewing your own garments with the added  bonus that it'll be to your specifications, not something off the rack that may or may not fit.

[Sir Brian]

Hail and well met! Welcome to the forum!
(sorry for being late on the greeting, somehow missed this one!)

[Don Jorge]

Wow I love the information overload! Okay so basically looking for Mild 16 gauge with a satin polish and 14 or 12 gauge great helm...for the transitional kit using the mad matts CoP kit would I need a gambeson (would it need arming points?) and chainmail right? if so how long? and would I need chainmail legs too? I really like Sir Brians Kit and would love more insight as to what it would take to build something like that...btw I already have a tunic and pants from my soft kit (see in the avatar) and I want to get a gambeson that I could use in HEMA but would also be good in my battle kit.

[Sir James A]

Great answers from everyone so far, I'm not going to rehash the steels, they have it well covered.

If you buy a mail shirt, you can point your arms directly to it. You'll want points to hang the legs from, though.

If you have plate legs, don't get mail legs as well. Too bulky.

You don't want an excessively padded gambeson. Minimal is better, especially with plate over it. Think of a thick snow suit; not very fun to move around in, you feel "bloated". Too much padding does the same, compounded with mail and plate over top of it. Revival Clothing makes a good off the rack gambeson that is hard to beat without going custom; and they sometimes have an end of year 20% off sale in late December. Sign up for their mailing list and keep an eye open. As a bonus, it'll work for armor and HEMA too.

[Don Jorge]

Great answers from everyone so far, I'm not going to rehash the steels, they have it well covered.

If you buy a mail shirt, you can point your arms directly to it. You'll want points to hang the legs from, though.

If you have plate legs, don't get mail legs as well. Too bulky.

You don't want an excessively padded gambeson. Minimal is better, especially with plate over it. Think of a thick snow suit; not very fun to move around in, you feel "bloated". Too much padding does the same, compounded with mail and plate over top of it. Revival Clothing makes a good off the rack gambeson that is hard to beat without going custom; and they sometimes have an end of year 20% off sale in late December. Sign up for their mailing list and keep an eye open. As a bonus, it'll work for armor and HEMA too.

Wow only 120 USD and they have stock for a 58 chest (I have a 54 chest...I got to see how accurate their sizing is...will call them and get more info)....I was looking at BadAss Garb but they are really expensive...I understand that is more custom but 230 base plus everything was lots extra! Has anyone bought from Forge of Svan? They had some snazy designs for about 165 USD shipped...



I wonder if that Gambeson is even historically accurate for late 14th century...

I was also looking at the kit looking a bit like this picture with a great helm

 

[Sir William]

Belemrys, I have the exact style of gambeson that I got from Forge of Svan, done in black...for the money, you'll not get better.  They're very communicative and their wares are well made.  I was worried at first at the thinness of the straps but they're very sturdy- I've picked up weight since I got it but haven't had any issues of strap or seam failure.  As I said, for that amount you'll not find anyone who does it better.  For significantly more (Jess Finley for instance) you'll get something much better but this is not a bad option.  Just know that it is more suited for plate than maille as the padding's pretty thin.  No complaints from my end though- and the turnaround time was like a month...considering where its coming from, that's pretty impressive.

On measurements - they'll tell you what they need, make sure they're accurate because Svan will build it to whatever measurements you provide and they'll be spot on, so you'll want to be wearing whatever gear you plan on wearing under it when you do take measurements as it should fit like a second skin and it will- so long as the measurements are accurate.

[Sir Edward]

As far as adding mail to the plate harness, something to keep in mind here also is how that changed over the centuries. In the 14th century, the plate armor was worn over a haubergeon. However, in the 15th and 16th, they reduced weight by putting the mail only inside the gaps of the plate armor, instead of wearing a haubergeon and then covering it with plates. This often was comprised of "voiders", which are sections of mail that cover the armpit and often inside the elbow as well, "standards" which are essentially mail gorgets to protect the neck, and mail faulds that are basicaly short skirts to protect the groin and upper thigh area.