Heraldic Design

[Sir Brian]

That looks great! Well done!

[Aiden of Oreland]

I think either this summer or the next, I will try to join a local SCA group near Philadelphia and submit my heraldry, that is if I decide that this is it.

So... I'll admit something now, I am a very picky person when it comes to designing something. Since my last update to my heraldry there was an essence to it that seemed to discomfort me, in the sense that something was off about the design. While at the MD Faire I went into a book shop and scrolled through a book about heraldry(I don't remember what the book was Titled). It talked about styles and purposes behind heraldic designs. One of the sections described how often an animal, such as a lion, would fill up as much space as possible on the ground it was on. So after comparing the initial art style to my stags art style, it didn't match up. That's when I realized it was the stag I found out of place in my heraldry. Not to say my stags art style didn't exist, it just wasn't popular for an early 12th/13th coat of arms. So my options at this point was to either ditch the stag, or redesign the whole thing. Seeing how I am not an artist, I decided to just ditch it. I'll instead incorporate it as a crest on a helm. Besides, I have found it much more appealing without it.

So here is an older design I considered once before, except compared to all my other ones this is a properly sized and proportioned crest. It's certainly more classical to the period and it's simple. Now, I considered having an ermine background on the white, behind the vert chevron. Only problem is, I don't know how to get it on there and have it look nice. I could just leave this the way it is of course, but if somebody is good at making heraldry I would be very appreciative if they could make the heraldry with the ermine.

Now, I realize that making it more simplistic will make it harder to pass for any future SCA purposes, but I can always make a desperate Coat of Arms if this doesn't pass.

Thoughts?

[Sir Edward]

I think it looks great with the chevron! That's something that's often overlooked by people, is that the earlier heraldry tended to be more geometric and simple. And, as an added bonus, it's easier to paint on a shield.

For the ermine, are you thinking an ermine field (lots of little ermines, some potentially intersecting the chevron), or just a few individual ermines in specific places around the chevron? It's possible these may make it look a lot more "busy", but sometimes you can be surprised.

On the SCA front, it's hard to say. Sometimes simple gets through just because most people tend to start with something complicated. Avoiding dragons and swords helps a lot here.

[Sir William]

As with my own, Page Aiden.  I like it- congratulations!  As you can see, I'm horrible at photography, but you get the point.  In case you wondered, I had my shield done at oakheartarmory.com - good price, too.

[Sir Rodney]

I like your new (old) idea of the chevron.  It has a classic, old school, heraldry feel too it.  I must admit that the stag pops as well, but reproducing it could prove to be a pain.  Trust me, I have a bonnacon!

[Sir James A]

I think it looks great with the chevron! That's something that's often overlooked by people, is that the earlier heraldry tended to be more geometric and simple. And, as an added bonus, it's easier to paint on a shield.

Both of these things, very much.

I like it!

[Sir Patrick]

I like it (but I'm prone to chevrons)!

[Aiden of Oreland]

I think it looks great with the chevron! That's something that's often overlooked by people, is that the earlier heraldry tended to be more geometric and simple. And, as an added bonus, it's easier to paint on a shield.

For the ermine, are you thinking an ermine field (lots of little ermines, some potentially intersecting the chevron), or just a few individual ermines in specific places around the chevron? It's possible these may make it look a lot more "busy", but sometimes you can be surprised.

On the SCA front, it's hard to say. Sometimes simple gets through just because most people tend to start with something complicated. Avoiding dragons and swords helps a lot here.

For the ermine I was considering maybe three on the left side of the chevron and 3 on the right, with 4 underneath. But I agree, the ermine may make it too busy. It would look better to have an ermine field without the chevron, but I like chevrons too much to do that.

I may tweak the green more, I can't seem to find a vert that satisfies me. That won't take very long though.

Something I have been looking to figure out is how to match the surcoat, helms, and other accessories to the heraldry. For a surcoat, I could easily make multiple ones with different designs. Such as having one for a tournament and one for the battlefield. Plus it'd vary based on the centuries I do. My only concern is holding up to the traditional heraldry and surcoat styles. Making the two properly match. Old painting and pictures usually just show a single colored surcoat. Sometimes even having the shield itself on the surcoat. The helm may take a few tries.

As with my own, Page Aiden.  I like it- congratulations!  As you can see, I'm horrible at photography, but you get the point.  In case you wondered, I had my shield done at oakheartarmory.com - good price, too.

I have an Oakheart armory shield also! I have the last heraldry I designed painted on it (without a finish incase I decided to change it). Great shield make. Though the edges seem to get really beat up, perhaps it's be better if I got a leather or steel trim. But where to get thoughts I can't recall.

Alightly off topic... Do you think the concept of having your heraldry on a surcoat was the equivalence to our dog tags today?

[Sir Brian]

Very astute reason and choice. I changed my COA as well when I found out my original was wrong. At least you didn't invest too much time and money into surcoats and shield painting your old COA!

[Sir William]

Dog tags?  Yes, something like that- a means to be able to discern friend from foe.  Which is why modern armies use uniforms, with identifying patches, and dog tags.  Heralds would be able to 'read' your blazon and announce your arrival at tournaments and you'd be able to be recorded in the rolls.

[Sir Edward]

I could see the surcoat acting as an identifier like that. However, historically this wasn't always the case. There are examples of the surcoat tying into the heraldry well, and other cases of the surcoat looking nothing like the heraldry. The shield itself was the identifier on the field originally, before plate armor took over, and the heraldry moved to banners and pennons, and sometimes horse barding as well.

[Sir James A]

I could see the surcoat acting as an identifier like that. However, historically this wasn't always the case. There are examples of the surcoat tying into the heraldry well, and other cases of the surcoat looking nothing like the heraldry. The shield itself was the identifier on the field originally, before plate armor took over, and the heraldry moved to banners and pennons, and sometimes horse barding as well.

I remember seeing crests that had nothing to do with the coat of arms, either. Definitely some diversity amongst the heraldic devices, even for an individual.

[Aiden of Oreland]

I could see the surcoat acting as an identifier like that. However, historically this wasn't always the case. There are examples of the surcoat tying into the heraldry well, and other cases of the surcoat looking nothing like the heraldry. The shield itself was the identifier on the field originally, before plate armor took over, and the heraldry moved to banners and pennons, and sometimes horse barding as well.

I remember seeing crests that had nothing to do with the coat of arms, either. Definitely some diversity amongst the heraldic devices, even for an individual.

That's great to know! I had a great surcoat design in mind, was just a bit hesitant is all. I plan to do a party style surcoat like I posted earlier, except the right side will have vert chevrons instead of vert formee crosses. I think that'll look rather handsome.