Half-Mail Chauses?

[Sir Humphrey]

Last January at the Military History Fest in Chicago I talked to a young fellow about chauses.  I regret that I did not get his name.  He was doing a Crusader impression and showed me his mail chauses that only came up to just above the knees where they were attached to padded thigh peices that then were pointed to a belt or some kind of waist suspension.  The idea was that the hauberk mail would be long enough to cover the thighs.  The advantage of course were much lighter mail chauses that were easier and more comfortable to suspend. 

Is there any documentation for this?  Very little of the period art shows the upper part of the mail on the legs because it is covered by the surcoat.  Also, is there any documentation for the standard repro chauses with the big wide mail "loop" at the top, or is that also speculation? 

Sir Hump

[Sir James A]

As far as I know, the mail loop is a modern convenience so that you can put a belt directly through it; I've only seen it on the IceFalcon ones (though I haven't shopped for any for years). I bought the IceFalcon set, didn't like the wonky loop, cut the tops down to approximately "cuisse" sizing, and added a wide leather tab to suspend them with.

I do remember seeing/hearing about crusader era wearing the padded chausses over the maille, instead of under, though I don't understand why.

Nathan made what he called "cheater chausses" the same way (just the knees down); he might have more info.

[Sir Humphrey]

Ha!  Cheater Chauses! 

Sir Humphrey

[Sir William]

I'm just speculating here as I've not looked underneath any surcoats from back then- but I get the impression we like them because they'd be lighter and therefore easier to bear but for someone whose very life depended on the armor they wore, I'm thinking they'd want as much as possible so chausses were probably full-leg.  Those loops are most likely modern in origin- for use with a belt, which I do not think was done in antiquity.  I've been following Sir Ian's thread about how to wear them and a lot of what's been discussed seems to make good sense.

I remember having a discussion with good Sylvanus while at MDRF- he'd fashioned a suspender and belt suspension system for his chausses because an earlier rendition that was just a belt dug into his hips most painfully, so he added suspenders which made wearing them much more bearable, but was probably not very historically accurate.  Plausible?  I don't know- suspenders didn't come in til hundreds of years later so...probably not.

[Ian]

... I get the impression we like them because they'd be lighter and therefore easier to bear but for someone whose very life depended on the armor they wore, I'm thinking they'd want as much as possible so chausses were probably full-leg.  Those loops are most likely modern in origin- for use with a belt, which I do not think was done in antiquity.

In full agreement.

I remember having a discussion with good Sylvanus while at MDRF- he'd fashioned a suspender and belt suspension system for his chausses because an earlier rendition that was just a belt dug into his hips most painfully, so he added suspenders which made wearing them much more bearable, but was probably not very historically accurate.  Plausible?  I don't know- suspenders didn't come in til hundreds of years later so...probably not.

Suspenders are kind of counter to a lot of what we know about suspending leg armor.  It's ok for pants because pants weight almost nothing, but for armor you're intentionally putting the weight of your armor on your shoulders.  Every time you shrug or potentially lift your arms you're interfering with or attempting to lift your leg harness.  I think the waist is really the way to go, either through textile or a separate girdle.  For maille, it was likely a girdle as garment tailoring had not evolved yet to the point where very fitted clothes were the norm (as would be required for a doublet to support legs).

[Sir William]

Suspenders are kind of counter to a lot of what we know about suspending leg armor.  It's ok for pants because pants weight almost nothing, but for armor you're intentionally putting the weight of your armor on your shoulders.  Every time you shrug or potentially lift your arms you're interfering with or attempting to lift your leg harness.  I think the waist is really the way to go, either through textile or a separate girdle.  For maille, it was likely a girdle as garment tailoring had not evolved yet to the point where very fitted clothes were the norm (as would be required for a doublet to support legs).

Agreed on the suspenders and in following your thread I find myself feeling hopeful that I might one day actually wear a pair.  Never could figure out a comfy way- I had a pair of butted ones I got last year, complete with loops but it dragged the front of the belt down and pulled on my lower back after only a few paces.  That was uncomfortable to say the least so I never bothered wearing them.

I'm a lazy bones though and it would suit me to stay in the 12th and go w/out them.  So thank you for doing the research and mocking up a viable option for the rest of us, good Sir!

[Sir Nate]

I've never heard of the idea of half chausses before. But agreeing with the need for protection above, I don't think it was very likely.

[Thorsteinn]

I've seen mail that wen't to just above the knee in look but it was then covered by gamboised cuisses (while continuing all the way up), and sometimes had a soupcan knee.

Also I've seen the ones that were done on just the front and laced to the back.

[Sir William]

I've seen mail that wen't to just above the knee in look but it was then covered by gamboised cuisses (while continuing all the way up), and sometimes had a soupcan knee.

Also I've seen the ones that were done on just the front and laced to the back.

I've seen those as well- both in art as well as in practice.  In art, the ones I saw had dagged sections that met in the back of the lower leg to be tied.  In practice, it was like square pieces of maille tied at the back.  Not very neat.