Miscellaneous > The Sallyport
Viking horned helms, yep I went there.
Sir James A:
--- Quote from: Lord Dane on 2013-04-12, 18:56:46 ---Romans wore helmet crests to signify their title and position amongst their ranks. Their color typically signified their house (i.e. House of Julii was red) but only Roman Consorts could wear their house signet on campaign. Auxillaries could not bear any crests (not Roman citizens) and even Legionaries (Roman citizens) could only bear it if they had significant importance in rank, title or office and it had to bear the color of their Cohort Commander. So I am told at least....
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Bold part is kind of what I was thinking, identification as a group, but not an individual.
--- Quote from: Sir Vander Linde on 2013-04-12, 19:35:46 ---Also found this, from the bronze age Scandinavia/Russia. This example specifically is from Denmark.
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Ah, okay. I thought you meant *horns* as in animal horn like hollywood. The pictures look metal, rather than wood/steel. And it's really throwing me off, but I swear the lone horn on the left looks threaded at the bottom, as if it would be removable (such as for battle), and used during ceremonials (as Sir Ian said). I can't tell if it's threaded, or just ringed, but both seem very unusual if it would be expected to be a permanent fixture on the helmet.
--- Quote from: Sir Vander Linde on 2013-04-12, 19:34:11 ---I would not say that their armor skills were not advanced. Their helms were quite decorated, along with fittings on swords, etc.
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Advanced in regards to heat treating, articulation, and complexity. They certainly had very decorative items, and some that were crazy intricate in detail. In my head, that's different from the core function of the armor. Sorry for the confusion. :)
--- Quote from: Sir Vander Linde on 2013-04-12, 19:42:11 ---Thanks for all the info and opinions on this subject!!!
Also the above picture of bronze age helms, we see toppers like this on the royal Danish helm when heraldry is "used" or better said recorded.
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If I'm reverse engineering this correctly, it's from a collection of heraldry, Armorial del Gelre, which is 1370-1414: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gelre_Armorial. No doubt helmet toppers / crests were in use at this point, and at least 100 or so years earlier - my knowledge is severely lacking in that period, and I had to google for the crest info on this one, but I hope that helps.
SirNathanQ:
The Norse peoples, especially Vikings, lacked any reason to stick horns or battlefield decoration on their helms. They certainly lacked the battlefield command system of the Romans, or the heraldry of the medieval era. And when worn to war, a crest in the medieval era seems for from line commander identification, to serve as rallying points on the battlefield amongst the complex cavalry actions.
All these things Vikings wouldn't have or need. During most of the viking era, to have a maille shirt identified you as a leader enough, you don't need to jam things to your head.
Also the sagas tend to ridicule those who let themselves get dragged about by their helm (loose cheekguards are mentioned). Horns do not particularly lend themselves to preventing this.
Sir Vander Linde:
--- Quote from: SirNathanQ on 2013-04-13, 04:39:49 ---All these things Vikings wouldn't have or need. During most of the viking era, to have a maille shirt identified you as a leader enough, you don't need to jam things to your head.
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That just simply is not true. Norse people were very much a sea culture as well as a horse culture. The horse bit is often over looked, but comprises a majority of religious/military practices. Everyone who was a free man had maille and a weapon, a leader usually would have additional armor of some early plate variant, lamellar, or a circular chest piece, splints,etc. They had quite good military tactics as well, if I remember correctly there was an instance of them taking out an army 3x the size of theirs that had cavalry. Heraldry was there, but you are correct it was not as greatly in use.
Sir Wolf:
that is not true at all.
there is NO evidence to that what so ever.
they had mail that is it. that is known. any lamallar or scale is of meditereanian area. could have been brought back etc.
there is writings about how much a jarl or huscarl or hersir had to have if he had certain amounts of land etc.
Lord Dane:
--- Quote from: Sir Wolf on 2013-04-13, 16:34:22 ---that is not true at all.
there is NO evidence to that what so ever.
they had mail that is it. that is known. any lamallar or scale is of meditereanian area. could have been brought back etc.
there is writings about how much a jarl or huscarl or hersir had to have if he had certain amounts of land etc.
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At mimimum, they must have had leather, linen, and maille.
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