Justifiable homicide?

[Joshua Santana]

I offer my respects & prayers to those who suffer as such. Good men suffer while those who do evil will not always be punished justly or swiftly in our years, and sadly enough, in theirs either.... Good behavior should be rewarded and evil deeds be punished

Indeed.

but it is not always so in this life.... Who judges what is good and evil?? Right and wrong?? Moral or immoral?? Who is good enough amongst men to judge?? And who is perfect enough to say they are just and righteous in what they do?? We all sin, we all suffer. We are all born, live, and die by the same will but not always under the same conditions. Although not always equal in life, we are made by the choices we make every day. Reflective of ideals, we are all judged in conscious by those thoughts and acts respectively by our own nature.   

There is truth in your words.  What gives an individual moral standing to judge is defined by his/her character, integrity and their definitions of morality.  Only then can one discern those who act with justice and mercy and those who do not. 

[Sir William]

Ah well...we can agree to disagree on that.  Vengeance is vengeance- despite the mistakes one or the other may have made.  I know for my part, if my daughter were responsible for the deaths of anyone else, first-time mistake or habitual, then she is liable to the full extent of the law.  What I will not condone, is someone killing her outright due to grief and rage- as far as I am concerned, that gives tacit approval for a like response.  You don't have the right to take her life- in doing so, you give me the right to take yours and thus the cycle begins.

[Sir Edward]

Personally I tend to lean toward the law in cases like this-- even scumbags deserve their day in court.

But having said that, I like this quote from an episode of The Borgias that I was just watching this week: (paraphrasing, due to insufficient memory) "Vengeance must be subtle, and not appear to be vengeance. Vengeance is patient. It can wait a lifetime if necessary because it never dies." 

[Sir James A]

I lean towards the Boondock Saints philosophy, but I doubt I could ever actually *live* it

** Not safe for work! Language **


At 1:17 until the end

[Sir William]

I love those guys...but truthfully, you'd have to be a bit homicidal yourself in order to perform the uh, services that these fellas render.  I thought they did a good thing...but as you saw, even they were not beyond the reach of vengeance.

I heard tell there might be a 3rd one?

[Sir James A]

I love those guys...but truthfully, you'd have to be a bit homicidal yourself in order to perform the uh, services that these fellas render.  I thought they did a good thing...but as you saw, even they were not beyond the reach of vengeance.

I heard tell there might be a 3rd one?

Oh certainly, and I'm not homicidal like that. They fill that gap of "these are evil people, who the world is better without, but the system can't do anything to" that only exists in movies. The "do not kill, do not steal, do not rape, these are things any person of any faith can embrace" is the highlight for me, as well as the warning to those of lesser crimes not to cross the line.

The third one rumor has been floating a while. The second one was terrible, but left it wide open for a third.

[Sir William]

You thought the second one was terrible?  Why?  That was actually the first one I'd seen- then the wife found the first one for me on evilBay.

[Lord Tristin]

I can't say what I would do. Would I be filled with rage and slay my child's killer? would I be struck with grief and weep for the death of my children? I don't know, and I hope I never have to find out.

[Corvus]

I will chime in on this one and say that I think Mr. Baraja's actions are justifiable - if not by the laws of men then by the laws of nature. Any of you here who are parents know how very deeply sacred your children are, as my eleven year old daughter is to me. There aren't even enough words for me to describe the love I hold for my child. My daughter to me; is priceless beyond imagining. Thus if someone ever took her from me a significant part of me would be gone: I would consider myself as already dead and do what I needed to.

I take a step beyond my own child in this as well. I consider all children to be sacred gifts. They are the seed of what our world could be: They are living packages of hope for our species - every single one of them.

As such they are, in my own not so humble opinion in this case, of far more value to the natural order than say, an adult in a similar circumstance. What Mr. Baraja must have gone through that day - and what he must be going through now - I can only imagine. He has lost his precious children to the deeds of one who by his own actions cared nothing for the law or even common sense. What he did came of utter selfishness - and innocents died as a result.

Now I imagine Mr. Baraja cares nothing for his own life. On some level, despite the facts, he probably considers himself responsible for the entire event. As parents we always feel that we could have done this better or that better. The 'what ifs' are probably the biggest spectre in Mr. Baraja's mind right now and he would probably like nothing more than to join his boys in the afterlife.

Very, very sad situation indeed.

[Sir James A]

I forgot to come back to this thread when I read about it on a different story. One of the articles stated that someone heard the crash, then Baraja went to his house which was nearby, CAME BACK, and shots were fired.

Under that pretense, I'd say it was premeditated, however short that time may be. My original comments were under the impression that the drunk driver hit his sons while they were pushing the car, and he turned around and shot him on the spot. The plot, as they say, thickens a bit with that.

[B. Patricius]

I am definitely a fan of the McManus brothers, and indeed plan to have "aequitas" and "veritas" on my person, in my kit, somewhere.  However, being a former federal LE (USCG), who swore an oath, I have to agree with Lord Dane.  I sympathize with this man, I truly do, and I believe he could easily be distraught enough to feel there's "nothing left."  God knows, if anything happened to my girlfriends daughter, I'd be equally 'gone' and very much in a mindset that Corvus is stating.  I've been distraught enough before myself, thought everything was gone (I lost my wife), but there is always tomorrow if we're strong enough to accept it.

But the law is the law.  And that's why the court system has different charges within homicide, and a trial by peers.

now, if something like that happened, and one took revenge for their loved ones, and accepted the consequences of those actions freely, even to not asking for forgiveness of it from a pastor before being put to death.  That is conviction, and something I have to respect, even if I may not agree with it.

[Corvus]

Well said, Brother Patricius

And indeed, I too think the McManus brothers rock pretty hard. I always thought that getting Aequitas and Veritas on the forearms would be cool too - except I already have ink there