Mistaken identity

[Sir Gerard de Rodes]

Just thought some of you may find this article about the effigies in the Temple Church in London interesting.
http://www.castlewales.com/mistaken_identity.html

G.

[Sir Edward]

Wow, it certainly does get complicated.

[Sir James A]

Well, that was certainly a brain twister. She raises some very valid points, and also touched on something I wondered about - what does the crossed or uncrossed legs mean. At least we know our Marshal coat of arms is correct, even if we aren't sure the effigy is!

[Sir William]

William the Marshal died an excommunicate?  I had not read that anywhere else...given that he was buried as a Templar, that kind of knocks that notion to the ground doesn't it?

[Sir James A]

William the Marshal died an excommunicate?  I had not read that anywhere else...given that he was buried as a Templar, that kind of knocks that notion to the ground doesn't it?

I believe it was Sir Edward who said (upon the Book of Faces) that Marshal took the Templar vows on his death bed?

[Sir Edward]

Yes, I've read elsewhere that he had promised during his years in the holy land that he would one day take the Templar vows. On his deathbed, he finally chose to do so. This required relinquishing his marriage, and his wife agreed to let him go at that point. I hadn't heard anything him supposedly being excommunicated.

[Sir William]

Well, he was cursed by a Welsh bishop who probably argued for the Marshal's excommunication, but as Sir Edward said- I have not read anything that gives this notion weight.

[Joshua Santana]

Well, he was cursed by a Welsh bishop who probably argued for the Marshal's excommunication, but as Sir Edward said- I have not read anything that gives this notion weight.

Quite funny that I am reading this post and I am re reading a book on Sir William Marshall.  Nope I did not come across any reference or record stating the Marshall being excommunicated. 

I've read elsewhere that he had promised during his years in the holy land that he would one day take the Templar vows. On his deathbed, he finally chose to do so. This required relinquishing his marriage, and his wife agreed to let him go at that point.

I read that and I was blown away at how understanding she was of her husband's wishes. 

But I do agree that the article does bring out the complications of identity.  However I can say that it does point out past mistakes and raises new questions. 

[Sir William]

Which book on the Marshal, Joshua?

[Joshua Santana]

"William Marshal: Knight Errant, Baron, and Regent of England" by Sidney Painter.  I found this in the library if Kean University.  I was also able to find a copy of "William Marshal: The Flower of Chivalry" by Georges Duby.

[Hrolfr]

I have read somewhere that the (either) crossed or uncrossed legs indicated that the person the effigy was carved for either did or did not go on a Crusade.

Kinda foggy on which was either.

[Sir Wolf]

crossed legs means he has to forever hold his pee

[Sir Edward]

crossed legs means he has to forever hold his pee

(citation needed)

[Sir William]

"William Marshal: Knight Errant, Baron, and Regent of England" by Sidney Painter.  I found this in the library if Kean University.  I was also able to find a copy of "William Marshal: The Flower of Chivalry" by Georges Duby.

I've read the Duby book, as well as Crouch's William Marshal: Knighthood, War and Chivalry, 1147-1219; but not Painter.  I'll have to check that out.

[Joshua Santana]

I've read the Duby book, as well as Crouch's William Marshal: Knighthood, War and Chivalry, 1147-1219; but not Painter.  I'll have to check that out.

Excellent, there is good reason to like Duby's book.  I have yet to catch Crouch's book.  Painter's book is biographical and has good historical information in it.  It is a very good book that does justice to the legacy of Sir William Marshal.