"All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing."
                -- Edmund Burke

Author Topic: Heraldry  (Read 9362 times)

RackThor

  • New Forum Member
  • *
  • Posts: 41
  • New Member
Heraldry
« on: 2013-03-05, 16:27:27 »
For someone who has not touched Heraldry before where would I begin my search to understand it, and apply it for myself and others?
Dragons live in us all, but it takes knowing ones self to become the knight capable of slaying it

Sir James A

  • Weapons & Armor addict
  • Knight of the Order
  • Forum Veteran
  • ****
  • Posts: 6,043
Re: Heraldry
« Reply #1 on: 2013-03-05, 17:12:43 »
A good basic intro is actually Wikipedia - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heraldry

Give it a read through. There are quite a few books on it, though I can't cite any titles since it's not something I'm well versed in.

If there's any specific questions, that will help. :)
Knight, Order of the Marshal
Sable, a chevron between three lions statant Argent

RackThor

  • New Forum Member
  • *
  • Posts: 41
  • New Member
Re: Heraldry
« Reply #2 on: 2013-03-05, 18:02:15 »
Thank you very much Sir.


A good basic intro is actually Wikipedia - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heraldry

Give it a read through. There are quite a few books on it, though I can't cite any titles since it's not something I'm well versed in.

If there's any specific questions, that will help. :)
Dragons live in us all, but it takes knowing ones self to become the knight capable of slaying it

Ian

  • Knight of the Order
  • Forum Veteran
  • ****
  • Posts: 2,994
Re: Heraldry
« Reply #3 on: 2013-03-05, 18:07:00 »
For the price, this is worth a look.  It's hardly an end-all be-all book on heraldry, but it's not too bad either.  There are much better, much more expensive tomes out there that can be recommended if your interest is deep.

http://www.amazon.com/Medieval-Heraldry-Men-at-Arms-ebook/dp/B007JCC1M2/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1362506370&sr=8-3&keywords=medieval+heraldry
My YouTube Channel - Knyght Errant
My Pinterest

Qui desiderat pacem, praeparet bellum

Sir Edward

  • Forum Admin
  • Commander of the Order
  • Forum Veteran
  • *****
  • Posts: 9,340
  • Verum et Honorem.
    • ed.toton.org
Re: Heraldry
« Reply #4 on: 2013-03-05, 19:08:45 »

For a very straightforward description of heraldry rules, here's the SCA's standardized way of doing things:

http://heraldry.sca.org/primer/

Historically, the rules changed a lot over the years, and varied between countries. But many groups (such as the SCA, and The Order of the Marshal, etc) will use this sort of standardized set of rules that are derived from historical English rules. I really like that "primer" from the SCA since it's a nice concise place to get an overview of the rules.

There are many websites that show what the individual charges, colors, divisions, and so forth can mean. Here's an example from some quick googling:

http://www.dksdesigns.net/symbolism.html

Heraldry on shields started out as a simple way to paint up the shield to make a knight recognizable on the field. Up until the 13th century, it tended to be simple geometric patterns. During the 13th they started to get more complex, and particularly in the 14th century you tend to see a lot more animals and objects used as charges. By the 15th century, heraldic designs could by much more complex, with "marshaling" to combine the arms of multiple families, as the system had become more codified and more meaningful beyond just battlefield use.
Sir Ed T. Toton III
Knight Commander, Order of the Marshal

( Personal Site | My Facebook )

Thorsteinn

  • Squire of the Order
  • Forum Veteran
  • ***
  • Posts: 2,470
Re: Heraldry
« Reply #5 on: 2013-03-05, 19:49:22 »
Fall down seven, get up eight.

Sir Edward

  • Forum Admin
  • Commander of the Order
  • Forum Veteran
  • *****
  • Posts: 9,340
  • Verum et Honorem.
    • ed.toton.org
Re: Heraldry
« Reply #6 on: 2013-03-06, 17:15:45 »

To help narrow the focus, what aspect of it do you want to know about the most? How it evolved over time? The rules and terminology? How you might go about choosing options for yourself?

If you want to make heraldry for yourself, most of it will come down to personal taste and things that mean something to you. You can certainly bounce ideas off of us here, and we can make suggestions.

The links Thorsteinn suggested above are a great source of ideas.
Sir Ed T. Toton III
Knight Commander, Order of the Marshal

( Personal Site | My Facebook )

RackThor

  • New Forum Member
  • *
  • Posts: 41
  • New Member
Re: Heraldry
« Reply #7 on: 2013-03-07, 03:34:18 »
Quite honestly I am curious about all the things you just listed Sir Edward, and I would like to know what role Heraldry truly played with 16th century knights.
Dragons live in us all, but it takes knowing ones self to become the knight capable of slaying it

Sir Edward

  • Forum Admin
  • Commander of the Order
  • Forum Veteran
  • *****
  • Posts: 9,340
  • Verum et Honorem.
    • ed.toton.org
Re: Heraldry
« Reply #8 on: 2013-03-07, 15:21:29 »

Ah, that might be worth reading about. By the 16th century, knighthood had evolved to be more of a title, rather than a battlefield role. Heraldry at this point, I think, had evolved also, such that it was a form of formal identification not just for knights, but also for nobles and royalty. This is where we get more of the notion of a "family crest" rather than being a shield design to identify knights in battle.
Sir Ed T. Toton III
Knight Commander, Order of the Marshal

( Personal Site | My Facebook )

Joshua Santana

  • Yeoman of the Order
  • Forum Acolyte
  • **
  • Posts: 1,002
  • Honorare scutum meum, veritas mea gladio
Re: Heraldry
« Reply #9 on: 2013-03-08, 16:34:50 »
Heraldry in the 16th Century was used to explore family lineages, and to identity the Honorific Knights in the Renaissance.  In essence, Heraldry was still practiced throughout the Renaissance until the 1700's.  An example of this is the coat of Arms belonging to the famous Don John of Austria shown here.

Knight of The Lion Blade

Honora gladium meum, veritas mea, et SpirĂ­tui Sancto.  כדי לכבד המגן שלי, האמת שלי חרבי

Honor My Sword, Truth My Shield.

Sir William

  • Cogito ergo sum
  • Knight of the Order
  • Forum Veteran
  • ****
  • Posts: 7,154
Re: Heraldry
« Reply #10 on: 2013-03-08, 18:29:26 »
It got way busier by that point.
The Black Knight, Order of the Marshal
'Per Pale Azure and Sable, a Chevron counterchanged fimbriated argent.' 
“Pride makes a man, it drives him, it is the shield wall around his reputation.  Men die, but reputation does not.”

Lord Tristin

  • Forum Member
  • **
  • Posts: 51
  • Always strive to better yourself.
    • My facebook
Re: Heraldry
« Reply #11 on: 2013-04-11, 19:59:30 »
I found an interesting piece of heraldry I may use. My family once used a scorpion as heraldry. Being from southern Spain it was of the few places the creature existed in Europe.

Corvus

  • A wanderer on the road less traveled
  • Forum Follower
  • ***
  • Posts: 137
  • New Member
Re: Heraldry
« Reply #12 on: 2013-04-15, 17:31:08 »
This is a large area unknown to me as well. I played in the SCA for some years and during this time I once asked a scribe about heraldry. His explanation was so amazingly complex he might as well have been lecturing on quantum mechanics!!!  ;-)  It sent me running for the border, so to speak and I have kind of hedged away from heraldry ever since  :)   I think I might delve into it again though...In my tradition we certainly have symbolic expressions, but nothing in the manner of heraldry as I have seen it in the Medieval sense.
“Gæð a wyrd swa hio scel.”    - Beowulf