Jews, Autism, and Perception.

[Thorsteinn]

Here's a thought: There are 5.3 million Jews in the US (1-57), and 3.5 million people with Autism Spectrum Disorders in the US (1-88). If a Jew was systemically denied his rights under the law by government and employers, if he also found strong Antisemitism & true misunderstanding where ever he went to the point that it lost him his job, education, love, and home prospects to the point it ruined his life, there would be a public uproar, even from the Christians. He would have the support of so very many

Yet those like me, who have an ASD, face this discrimination every day of our lives from everyone including our friends and family. We can't wear an Autistic Kippah, nor a Aspergian Mogen David to identify ourselves to the public (we are even encouraged to hide our differences). We are told by many, even our family, that it is unfair for others to have to adapt to our needs, that it is not right to expect others to try and understand what we are. That we ask too much. We lose our homes, our loves, our education, our jobs. Our lives ARE ruined. But still we are told we ask too much.

But here's what they miss: Being a Jew is a choice. Having an ASD is not.

-Sean K.
Jewish Athiest with Asperger's Syndrome.

[SirNathanQ]

Ivan, I feel for you. My little brother has autism. Though I have found that people in my community love him to death, and gladly accomidate him. Maybe it's a rural small town thing.

Aren't autistics covered under the ADA? If someone is discriminating against you, it deserves any and all legal repercussions.

[Thorsteinn]

Yes we are covered and we have rights in schools, jobs, etc but I've found these rights trampled more often than enforced. Thus the metaphor.

Folks with ASD's are 7 times more likely than neurotypicals to suffer discrimination, abuse, and be victims of crime. We fundamentally see the world different... and are blind to it as well. There is a reason why I'm blind to what my dysfunctional ex's do to me.

On the flip side a quote from a friend that came about while discussing relationships & Aspie's:

First off, don't get needy. That's the fastest way to drive a potential intimate partner off. Secondly, even the neurotypicals don't always see those stumbling blocks quite as easily as you might think. Best advice I can give is trust your gut. It may not be perfect but nobody's is. A shrink I met in passing at a social event once told me when I related my problems seeing the stumbling blocks and feeling like "Aspie's always wrong" this: " Actually, Aspie's usually right." As aspies, we have a unique point of view and way of seeing things in ways nobody else can. Therefore what I try to do, and am by no means perfect at it, is to use that point of view to my advantage. Am I the best at empathy? oh hell no. Doesn't mean I don't give a damn. Just means I can't easily express it if at all. Especially under stress. At any rate, stepping off my soapbox before you hit me in the head with that Dane Ax of yours.

[Ian]

I follow what you're trying to say, but the comparison is not valid.  You could substitute any group in for the Jewish community in this case and try to create a metaphor, but you're comparing apples to oranges, not apples to apples.  I also believe that belonging to a religious group does not have as great of a social effect as some autism spectrums can present in the workplace or any other social environment.  Discrimination is wrong in any form, but it has nothing to do with fairness compared to how a religious group is treated.

[Thorsteinn]

After almost 5800 years Judaism has achieved a cultural impact that is both large & subtle. In many ways I have more in common with Israelis than with Americans even though I'm culturally a Russian Reform Jew & not a Semitic Conservative Jew.

If you were raised to be a Christian then the cultural impact of that Christianity is not very apparent, but if you were raised a Jew it is everywhere & in everything in this country (being an Atheist its even more apparent).

The reason I picked Judaism is simple: I was raised a Jew in very redneck Nevada. I have experienced discrimination and bigotry as a Jew and as an Aspie. I have gotten fairly effective help countering the antisemitism but not the for the Anti-Autism. Also both groups are small, both are "the other" in America, and both give the individual a very different take on life.

I wasn't comparing effective levels of discrimination but in fact comparing two small, but approximately equal in size, disaffected groups and how one, the one of choice & visibility, is receiving effective help in countering their discrimination while the other isn't.

Fun fact: In 1900 there were 56 million Jews worldwide with a planetary population of 1.7 billion. Now there are 15 million  Jews and a world population of 7 billion. When I was diagnosed 10 years ago there were 1-in-250 for Aspie's a with a world pop of 6 billion. Now it's 1-in-90 with only 1 billion more folks around.  See, perception of effect may not be effect. Most people think there are more Jews and less Autistic's/Aspie's than there are.

[Sir Ulrich]

I was diagnosed with Aspergers at a young age, in all honesty being stuck in "special" schools for it fucked me up more than it did help me. I didnt learn any basic social skills until 3 years ago and I was antisocial as hell. I ended up getting abused by the teachers a ton which is the prime reason I am rather rebellious to authority and whatnot. I learned more in the past 3 years than I did ANYBIT in those damn schools. And when it came to my peers I often than not found myself annoyed by them because all they gave a sh** about was drugs sex and crappy music. In all honesty I dont even think I got it, I did take an asspie quotent test and came back as NT rather than asspie. Years ago I would come back as asspie. I have no clue whats happening but I seem to be breaking out of it slowly but surely, probably being stuck in schools full of them made me learn stereotyped asperger behavior? Not sure but my mood problems and OCD seem to cripple me worse than aspergers.

[Thorsteinn]

Ulrich I have some questions: Who were you diagnosed by in what year at what age? Have you taken the Wired.com AQ test? Are you aware that mood disorders and OCD are very common co-morbid disorders with Aspergers?

For example for me its: UNR's Downing Clinic + a state Neuropsychiatrist, 2002, 23; Yep & scored well above the needed line; I've got Dysgraphia, ADD, & Severe Emotinal Handicap.

[Sir William]

I thought Ivan meant ethnic Jews, not those who follow the theology.  In any case, it is unfortunate- but basic human behavior is to fear and sometimes deny that which we cannot see or understand.  I've had no real exposure to autism or Asperger's- in fact, Ulrich and Ivan are the first two people I've ever met that suffer from either(that I know of...there could've been others who just didn't say so, and in retrospect, I fully believe that was the case- which would explain what I saw as inexplicable behavior at the time) so this is all new ground for me.

I wasn't always the most understanding or kind person, but I did and do try and I think that's what makes it so that I don't view such instances as something to run screaming from.  I have a much better understanding of both maladies, if only because knowing people somewhat personally who have them led me to wanting to know more about them.

As far as adaptation and expectations go, we're all human beings, we're all going to make mistakes and do things we regret.  I think, Ivan, you'll find that some people are more receptive to your condition and needs than others, and as such, more willing to make allowances and/or alter their thought patterns and behavior, especially if they're given the chance to get to know you and not just your condition- and that's just the way the world works.  It isn't fair, I know.  You think it's hard being Jewish with an ASD, try being Black!  You wouldn't believe how many doors have slammed shut in my face, both literally and figuratively, just because of the color of my skin.  I suppose I shouldn't complain as it hasn't always been a hindrance and I'm told I'm lucky that I'm not darker.  LOL;)

[Sir James A]

Have you taken the Wired.com AQ test?

I got a 34. No idea what that means?

[Thorsteinn]

You may be black, but at least you don't feel like your on the wrong planet.

Besides, ever since the Great Black/Jew Conference of '47 we've been cool. So sayeth Lenny Kravitz, the Hebrew Hammer, & Mel Brooks! 

[Thorsteinn]

I got a 34. No idea what that means?

Well....

"Eighty percent of those diagnosed with autism or a related disorder scored 32 or higher. The test is not a means for making a diagnosis, however, and many who score above 32 and even meet the diagnostic criteria for mild autism or Asperger's report no difficulty functioning in their everyday lives." From Wired.com

I scored a 37/50 which is 5 points lower than 10 years ago when I was diagnosed.

[Sir William]

You may be black, but at least you don't feel like your on the wrong planet.

Besides, ever since the Great Black/Jew Conference of '47 we've been cool. So sayeth Lenny Kravitz, the Hebrew Hammer, & Mel Brooks! 

That's true...I've never felt like I didn't belong here on earth...although that doesn't ring true for some of the places I've been on this earth.  lol

I grew up in a diverse neighborhood of Catholics, Jews (both Orthodox and non) Protestants (I was raised Lutheran), Jehovah's Witnesses (not once did they ever come over and try to preach to us, but I'm sure they sent fellow JWs lol) as well as atheists and we all pretty much got along.  I grew up thinking that religion was just a way of communing with God and other people had other ways of doing it- used to get into theological debates in art class with a friend, who was a JW and I felt, for the first time, that sensation some Christians feel when under fire...it was all quite a learning experience for me.  I was a Bible scholar at the time so I relished such discourses.  I was never taught that any one religion was wrong- as not everyone feels or thinks or sees things the same way, this seemed natural enough to me.

I don't bother with theological debates anymore- the playing ground's even on all sides and no one's to know the victor until the time comes when such earthly pursuits no longer matter.