Longsword Demo Combat Technical Discussion

[Thorsteinn]

Be careful not to over think it or get over specialized in the Same vs Same weapon fights.

I've seen this happen to SCA Sword & Shield guys who do nothing but train to defeat other Sword & Shield guys. The dojo artifacts creep in and the moment they face a spear, axe, mace, etc the fall apart.

-Ivan

BTW & OT: Vor is also Russian for Thief, as in the Vory V Zakone.

[Sir Edward]

I'm working on adding a bunch of the German terms to the glossary so they'll highlight. That'll help everyone out. I know I have a hard time keeping them straight myself.

Don't worry about the same vs mixed weapons issue for this discussion. We mix it up all the time in class, but this discussion sprang out of the longsword demo we performed at VARF, so for the sake of this discussion, it's OK to consider just longsword vs longsword. Also, with the German system, it's really not any different if you switch to single-hand sword, or sword and buckler. The techniques change very little.

With reasonably well made steel swords, we can do thrusts safely, as long as people wear their gorgets or at least have a decent bib on their fencing mask. We do just have to be careful to keep it under control.

[Sir Brian]

I am still learning to string various attacks together on the offensive as well as the defensive.

I’ve found working a pell as a good means of developing attack and defense then counter attack combinations which can become fairly elaborate as you try to visualize the parries and counter moves an opponent could take and let that lead into your next angle of attack. – Several training partners have told me that I make some of my attacks from unconventional angles, which derives from my work with the pell.

A good place to start when dueling is to consider which guard your opponent is in and maneuvering yourself and taking a guard (usually vom tag) to launch an attack to break that particular guard they are in. Then expand upon that concept by working into a particular attack from a guard not considered to be optimum to initiate the appropriate Meisterhau verses the guard they are in.

My own experience shows me that I am either on the offensive or the defensive with little thought about swapping between the two.

I am having to consciously think about 1-2 attacks max followed by backing out of range with a guard or an attack.

Currently I find that I attack/parry and I'm still in close.  I want to keep pressing the attack but I can't because I haven't thought that far ahead...

Another thing I also learned is trying to have a good spatial awareness of how big your sword is, how to catch your opponent's blade and either deflect, parry or redirect the blade to open something else up.  After that is done, then realizing and being able to analyze what is now open and can be struck as part of the parry, or taking the option to fly out of the melee to reset.

Everyone struggles with this. Everyone! Those that have been dueling longer have a much deeper repertoire to draw from but the key conditional modifier is that every engagement is different. No two binds with the blades are the same and every disengagement holds the potential of leaving a line of attack open to be exploited by an opponent with a little better reflexes and tactical perception at that given moment but all in all judging from your perceptions you are well on your way in developing a keen fighting instinct. 

[Thorsteinn]

I am having to consciously think about 1-2 attacks max followed by backing out of range with a guard or an attack.

"Flow" is one of the hardest skills to get and an easy one to lose as it's 50/50 mental & physical.

Do you do any Eastern Martial Arts? The same things that let you flow in those will let you flow here. I have been recently told that my form has just sucked (it has) & for some reason my flow has left me. I think it's because I worry about my shoulders giving out, thusly not giving myself to the fight, and thusly put my shoulders in greater danger of injury.

Strange as it seems, good circuit training in the gym will help. Working the whole body while zoning out will help.

[SirNathanQ]

Sir Brian, I'm in the process of getting that video. Things have been busy, so I haven't had a chance yet to get my paws on the video camera.

My biggest thing right now is trying to get my cuts speed up, and being able to string them into combinations. Also trying to get myself to correctly break a guard. I need to get myself that pell....

[Sir Edward]

Also trying to get myself to correctly break a guard.

This is a tricky one. While you do want to instinctively flow into the correct attack based on what guard your opponent is, the problem is that the other guy will probably be expecting that. So if you want to be less predictable, you need to not always do the "right" thing here, and instead do something else. So if you're not naturally falling right into the "correct" attack all the time, as long as you can do it sometimes, you're probably not that bad off.

[Sir Brian]

Also trying to get myself to correctly break a guard.

This is a tricky one. While you do want to instinctively flow into the correct attack based on what guard your opponent is, the problem is that the other guy will probably be expecting that. So if you want to be less predictable, you need to not always do the "right" thing here, and instead do something else. So if you're not naturally falling right into the "correct" attack all the time, as long as you can do it sometimes, you're probably not that bad off.

Bingo! Sir Edward is absolutely correct. Everyone knows which Meisterhau conquers which guard therefore unless you intend to stay in the nach and hope to land a riposte or stop thrust you will have to engage surreptitiously to their open line from an unconventional angle.

i.e. Instead of executing a Krumphau to an Ochs guard try an unterhau to the opposite lower quadrant for a couple of exchanges when your opponent takes that guard. Even if you don't get past their parry you are essentially 'conditioning' your opponent to expect that attack angle from you when they are in that particular guard. Then on the third or four go at their Ochs guard you execute a krumphau. - Remember our first duel? You relied upon the thrust once too often and on the third time you tried it I voided it entirely and stepped into your line with my Oberhau. I was able to do that because I 'knew' you would probably continue with what you thought was working out for you, but you cannot expect your opponent to so readily accommodate you in such a manner and so you must anticipate that they will figure out your shenanigans fairly quickly and do the exact opposite of what you want or expect them to do. As a general rule expect your opponent to be at least as good or far better than you and engage them accordingly. 

[Joshua Santana]

Bingo! Sir Edward is absolutely correct. Everyone knows which Meisterhau conquers which guard therefore unless you intend to stay in the nach and hope to land a riposte or stop thrust you will have to engage surreptitiously to their open line from an unconventional angle.

i.e. Instead of executing a Krumphau to an Ochs guard try an unterhau to the opposite lower quadrant for a couple of exchanges when your opponent takes that guard. Even if you don't get past their parry you are essentially 'conditioning' your opponent to expect that attack angle from you when they are in that particular guard. Then on the third or four go at their Ochs guard you execute a krumphau. - Remember our first duel? You relied upon the thrust once too often and on the third time you tried it I voided it entirely and stepped into your line with my Oberhau. I was able to do that because I 'knew' you would probably continue with what you thought was working out for you, but you cannot expect your opponent to so readily accommodate you in such a manner and so you must anticipate that they will figure out your shenanigans fairly quickly and do the exact opposite of what you want or expect them to do. As a general rule expect your opponent to be at least as good or far better than you and engage them accordingly.

Quite true indeed, the better skilled opponent will use anything in his repertoire to stop his opponent's offense and to get the better of the situation.

Best advice is to mix up your fighting strategies and adjust according to what your opponent throws at you.

[Sir James A]

Sir Brian, I'm in the process of getting that video. Things have been busy, so I haven't had a chance yet to get my paws on the video camera.

My biggest thing right now is trying to get my cuts speed up, and being able to string them into combinations. Also trying to get myself to correctly break a guard. I need to get myself that pell....

I'm working on the one my wife recorded too. It's 436MB, and we have it on the PC, but way too big to email or post; I might just burn a CD and have it sent via sneaker-net.

[Thorsteinn]

I'm working on the one my wife recorded too. It's 436MB, and we have it on the PC, but way too big to email or post; I might just burn a CD and have it sent via sneaker-net.

Break it up into pieces & load it onto Youtube or put it into your Google Docs account & send out a download link. If you don't have Movie Maker I would be happy to do it for you.

BTW why so large? 486 mb is bigger than some of the Game Of Thrones episodes I have.

[Sir Edward]

Probably a raw AVI from the camera. It can always be re-compressed into something smaller, of course. How long is the video?

[Lord Dane]

Good conversation topic to have. Tactics & techniques are always worth sharing as are video footage of actual combat. Even training instructors are always the student, learning & improving. I love to practice my combat technique so I can improve myself. Fighting is a practical skill that always needs improvement so it's not forgotten or sloppy.

[Sir James A]

Probably a raw AVI from the camera. It can always be re-compressed into something smaller, of course. How long is the video?

Yep, uncompressed, "fresh from the factory". It's 3:35 long. The compressed / mangled / webified video is here:

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=10150934847752372&set=t.1132478990&type=3&theater

Not sure if that's public or will work... but we'll figure out something for getting it posted. I'm a bit ashamed of it since it's the only demo I wasn't in harness, but totally my fault anyway. A few good exchanges in there that should be worthy of discussion.

[Thorsteinn]

It looks like thats the wrong link.

[Sir Edward]

It comes up for me, but we're friended on facebook, so that's probably why.