Pauldrons catching breastplate

[merc3065]

Anyone have any ideas of how to prevent pauldrons from catching on my breastplate and backplate?

I think the pauldrons I purchased were not made for the breast/backplate so they don't allow for movement.

Basically at rest, the leading edges on front and back will catch either on my chainmail shirt or underneath the breastplate locking me in place.

Do you think bending the edges out a little bit will help counteract this catching?
I can post some pics tonight of what I'm talking about.

[Sir Edward]

Yep, I think bending the edges might be your best bet. Ideally they should overlap a little when at rest, so there's no gap, and nothing to catch. But if they weren't meant to match, there's not much you can do at that point except modify them a little to minimize the problem. If you flare the edges out a little, hopefully it can skip off the edge of the breastplate rather than dig under.

[Allan Senefelder]

Any chance to see a pic of you in it showing the problem? A visual is better as a diagnostic for me as it may be a combination of things required to fix it.

[merc3065]

I'll post some pics tonight of me wearing the upper portion of the harness so I can get some detailed pics of where it's catching.

Pictures speak louder than words in some cases.  I think the flaring out of the edges will work (vice grips hoooo!) But I am open to other suggestions.  It's weird because they don't sit properly on my shoulders either as the straps from the gorget that hold them in place don't line up directly over the middle of my shoulders, but slightly forward or slightly back.

Pics to follow tonight so you can see what I'm talking about.  Thanks for the help!

[Allan Senefelder]

vice grips hoooo!)

Vice grips mar finished metal, a 2"x4" clamped to a benchtop and a hammer using the edge of the wood to cause the steel to gently flare out will minimize surface scuffing. Let me pics to see whats doing.

[merc3065]

I'll get some pics after I get home from work

But I'll be using the vice grips with a bit of padding in between the jaws.  I've used this method before repairing fenders and other pieces of sheet metal with good results.  I don't have any sort of vice or other device let alone a work bench.  My lap is my workbench and my hands/car tools are my tools.

[merc3065]

Second photo I had the gorget on backwards.
The more I work with these pauldrons the more I detest their construction and functionality.  A single strap on the top and a single at the base of the lames that go down your upper arm is not enough.  I think if it had 2 straps on the top it would work better with the gorget that is in use to hold it up on your shoulders.

Any sort of movement with a sword for example (standard longsword stances) causes the upper piece to flip or if they are too loose, the top plate falls forward on your arm causing you to stop and readjust.  Comments?

[Sir Wolf]

ok soem quick suggestions.

put the gorget under the breast n back.
pull the breastplate up a bit, it looks like it's sagging down to far,

you may need to point the pauldrons up higher on the shoulder area.

[merc3065]

I'll try the gorget underneath.
Breastplate and backplate can't go up any further otherwise they are right up under my armpit and I'll look like I'm a "T".

What do you mean by point the pauldrons higher?  the edges like I was thinking or something else?
Sucks when you get something that is adjustable but really wasn't made specific to you.  Appreciate the help!

[Allan Senefelder]

" put the gorget under the breast n back. "

Yep this is how they were worn historically. This will make the whole rig sit differently.

" pull the breastplate up a bit, it looks like it's sagging down to far, "

I believe you if you say it can't go higher it just looks in the pic like theres more room under the arm. By sitting higher it would change to location of the arm opening in relation to the edge of the shoulder defense.

" What do you mean by point the pauldrons higher? "

He means the shoulder defense looks to be sitting to far out from the neck and shoulder joint. Snug them up close to the neck. This will again change how they interact with the arm openings.

Based on the pics it seems much of you issue has to do with how you're wearing them. Doesn't mean they'll work perfect worn differently but by eliminating things that are definite issues things can be narrowed down as pertains to the fix.

[Sir William]

merc, you're learning what I learned a few years ago w/regard to how armor should 'sit' on the body.  If your pauldrons were set up for points (think laces) rather than straps, this would be easier to accomplish, in my opinion.  Sure, you could also punch more holes in the top strap to get the pauldrons to sit higher...and they should sit in front of/on top of the breastplate edge there...it looks like you have it underneath instead.

Rule of thumb- do what Allan tells you...he's the guy behind Mercenary's Tailor and he knows his stuff when it comes to armor.  Fit is everything.

[merc3065]

Thanks for the description of what I need to try.
I have tried connecting the pauldrons at their tightest point in the past to the gorget but they don't allow any movement.  I'll try it under the breastplate
I may have to drill and lace the pauldrons instead of the straps as one of the rivets on the gorget is starting to work it's way through the leather strap.  I just noticed this last night.

The breastplate/backplate was built with someone who is twice my size in terms of belly size. (XXL painted on inside lol)  I had to punch holes that were almost 6" away from the "factory" holes on the shoulder straps.  I wear the side straps at their tightest point to give a comfortable fit. 
But maybe that 1" or so that will be pushed up by the gorget assembly will move things up a little more.

I'll let you know how it fits tonight after I get home from work.  Also, the gorget I have was just a single piece of metal that was cut either side so it's not really properly formed for the round of my collarbone/shoulders.  It's something i'll be fixing tonight as well.

Thanks for the help!

[Sir Wolf]

ya i would stop attaching the pauldrons to the gorget. it seems right but i do not think it's historical nor does it allow the pauldrons to sit properly. i did this on my full suit of armour to before i knew about correctly pointing the pieces to the arming jacket.

i like to put point holes in the arming jacket pretty far up on the shoulder. maybe even close to the neck seem. then lace them accordingly. you can even put in multiple holes so you can fit it as the day goes on (material stretches)

your gorget (while it looks awesome) really has no protection value for you. any hit you take should be glanced off your breastplate. I would look to either attach some sort of ridged neck protection onto your existing gorget or get another one made like the examples I showed earlier. always wear it under the BnB. this allows all blows to glace off and not go under it (aiming at the lower neck)

who made you armour? the animi look is pretty cool (layered) I think the one thing (the photos show) that it is missing is dishing in the stomach area. mine is done the same way. the metal is bent and has a shallow dish from the bending, but is not body shaped. causing tightness in some areas yet has gaps in others. still i like the look you are going for!

[Sir James A]

Rule of thumb- do what Allan tells you...he's the guy behind Mercenary's Tailor and he knows his stuff when it comes to armor.  Fit is everything.

Yep, this is by far the most important. From my experience, with full-sized pauldrons like that, the large part of the pauldron should be wider than the breastplate to minimize it catching and going under the breastplate. Flaring the edges will definitely help, but do it carefully.

The pauldrons should sit slightly "forward" on your arms. Same thing for mail. Our arms are naturally slightly forward, and armor will fit and move better if it sits natural on us. I think the inherit little nuances of pauldrons are why they were used (from what I've seen) mostly with polearms or mounted jousting, and spaulders (pauldrons with smaller main plates) were common for non-polearm foot combat.

[merc3065]

Thanks for all the help!

I moved the gorget under the BnB (awesome shortform by the way!) and it resolved 90% of the issues I was having.
I agree that the gorget has no protective value except to stop any sort of pierce to the area just below the collarbone but nothing for the neck at all.  I definitely need something to go up my neck to just under my jawbone. 

The gorget seems to be holding everything correctly for now but I will have to get some examples of pointing with the leather cord and maybe a "how to" on how to do this for when the strap on the one side finally lets go.

In the mean time I have to bend the gorget's curves to fit my shoulders properly as right now the cuts that were made between the 2 pieces are poking me on those little shoulder knobbies that everyone has on their collar bone.  Even through my gambeson I can feel it poking which I can see as a major comfort issue for any length of time.

The leading corner that contacts the breastplate on the front needs to be flared out maybe 5-10mm max so it clears the fluting on the upper half of the breastplate.  The back portion of the pauldron doesn't even catch anymore.  It makes me wish more and more this suit had an instruction manual.

Also, placing the gorget underneath the BnB it raised the whole thing up a little bit as I thought it would and it sits a lot more comfortably and snugly than before.  The shoulder straps sit right on top of the gorget.

How are those straps protected from cutting blows?  Is that what the aventail or coif would have done from the helmet?

As for who made the stuff?  No clue.  www.swords4you.com is the website store front.  I am assuming it's someone over in Europe as the guy who I purchased it from in Milton, ON was European and he's modelling the armor on his website.  I was trying to go for something that was English style 14th-15th century but the more I look at the Greenwich armour, the more I find this is definitely a fantasy style more than anything.

I'll eventually get the "proper" battle harness considering I DID get the green light from the better half

Once again, thanks for all your help and any help with the pointing is appeciated!