Hanwei practical messer

[Sir Edward]

http://www.kultofathena.com/product.asp?item=SH2458&name=Hanwei+Practical+Langmesser+

I'm tempted to get one of these. It's pretty cost-effective as a messer trainer.

[Sir William]

How different are the fighting styles between lang messer and longsword?

[Sir Edward]

Very similar, actually. With swords of the same size, the same techniques will work. The messers only really differ in that they have a single edge (though the back-edge was often sharpened in the last few inches or so), and they have a "nagel" (literally "nail", sort of a third quillion on the guard). So back-edge cuts still work with the tip, and that nagel can catch some things that a longsword or arming sword might miss. So even with some minor differences, most of the same stuff works.

[Sir William]

That is good to know...thanks!

[Das Bill]

These have unforutately been in the realm of "coming soon" for about a year now, I think, due to the fire that happened at the Hanwei factory. They announced that these were about to come out, then the fire happened, and they don't know when they'll be able to put them into production.

How different are the fighting styles between lang messer and longsword?

As Ed said, they're practically the same. In the Liechtenauer tradition, a weapon is a weapon, and it's all part of the same art. The biggest difference, though, is that the langes messer is a single handed sword, and the longsword is a two handed sword, so that makes minor biomechanical differences in how you execute actions.

[Sir William]

I did not consider that...I suppose I should have asked about the differences between it and a single hand sword and the answer would definitely apply then.  Thanks for the clarification, Bill.

[Sir Edward]

Ah yes, thanks for adding the clarification. I should have been more clear about that. A Langesmesser is more like a single-hand sword, and a Grossemesser or Kriegsmesser can be more like a longsword. But most of the time when people are talking about messers, they're referring to the single-hand variety.

BTW, check this out:

[Sir William]

Great, just great...now I want one.  Their movements are very fluid, almost like a dance.  It is a good deal more poetic than the flash of Hollywood- if only because these are tried and true techniques that have proven their effectiveness throughout history.  Thanks for sharing...do you train in this in class w/Bill? 

Some of them had what looked like falchions to me...the clip pointed ones are what I'm referring to; always found those to be quite attractive.

[Sir Edward]

do you train in this in class w/Bill? 

Yup.

[SirNathanQ]

Yeah, my biggest concern was the dimensions. For the life of me I couldn't get weather they were offering one similar to the video (I LOVE THAT GROUP!!!!!!) or a proper Kriegmesser.

I would like to see an adaption of shield and sword (1 hander) based on the plays similar to what's in the video. I bet alot of the stuff translates well.   

[Das Bill]

Yeah, my biggest concern was the dimensions. For the life of me I couldn't get weather they were offering one similar to the video (I LOVE THAT GROUP!!!!!!) or a proper Kriegmesser.

Well, keep in mind terms like "kriegsmesser", "grosse messer", etc. were not really well defined by period people. And the long grip on the Hanwei sword is very normal for one handed messers, and is also exactly what is depicted in the vast majority of period fencing treatises that deal with the messer. I assume that's why they made it that way, because WMA practicioners are going to be their biggest market.

For example, here is a picture from Paulus Kal:
http://daten.digitale-sammlungen.de/~db/bsb00001840/images/index.html?id=00001840&fip=eayayztsewqeayaxssdasyztsqrseayaxs&no=42&seite=153

And here is one from Hans Lekuchner:
http://daten.digitale-sammlungen.de/~db/bsb00002184/images/index.html?id=00002184&fip=eayayztsewqeayaxssdasyztsqrseayaxs&no=&seite=51

[SirNathanQ]

Yeah, I know. But we gotta have names for everything of course........ 

And I'm glad to see manufacturers finally tailoring products to WMA