Help on Gothic Harness!

[Das Bill]

I just got back from a research trip in Europe. I just spent hours examining up close some of the original pieces that have inspired the modern copies in this very thread.

Since the most comprehensive sources seem to come from Germany, I'd go with the Gothic Myself.

Keep in mind that though the Germanic areas may have the most surviving literature, these arts were widespread, and "Germany" as we know it didn't actually exist. You would have seen both the "German" and "Italian" fighting arts used all throughout the Holy Roman empire. Plus, there's also the issue that so many of the armors were imported. (i.e. "Italian-styled" harnesses made in Germany for Italian clientele, and "German-styled" armors made in Italy for German customres) So really, you can easily justify Italian armor with German martial arts.

[Das Bill]

I am seeking to spend around $3,000 to $5,000 or even $2,000 minimum.  This leaves with the choices of Merc's Tailors or Ice Falcon Armory after comparing the full harness prices from both armories.  (And Thank You Sir Wolf!  I hugely appreciate you're help)

If you're willing to spend that, I would actually refrain from Ice Falcon, and while Merc's Tailor is good, they might not be your best option for what you want. Both are good for the money, but Merc's Tailor is meant for spending on a budget (and therefore will be "off-the-racK" rather than perfectly fitted), and Ice Falcon is really closer to fantasy than historical (and it sounds like that matters to you). I would personally go for one of the custom makers. For example, Best Armour has some full harnesses of the exact styles you're looking at that fit well within your range, and they will make it to your measurements (a VERY important thing with full armour). They aren't the best in terms of time management, but they're a good example of what you can get for that price range.

[Das Bill]

Does this mean that I will have to purchase this?



and this?

You need either/or, but not both. The cotte already has the leg points, and is appropriate for later 15th c. harnesses. If you're wearing a padded gambeson, though, you'll want the pourpoint intead for underneath of it.

And another thing to consider, supposed if I got the Italian Harness, would these help at all?   Or should I get this?



or this?

I really dislike those. They're bulky, and the cut of the design is weird so that they don't really look natural when worn. I ordered one when they first came out and instantly returned it. They're okay, but I think you can get better for not much more. (e.g. the Revival Clothing model)

[Sir Wolf]

http://www.flarcheveque.com/Homeb.html contact francois. he is canada's macpherson. REALLY good stuff.

[Sir Wolf]

http://www.armuredube.com/armuredube.com/Accueil.html this is eric. i think francois learned form him. very good too.

[Sir Edward]

And I hate to say this but Historic Enterprises is the enemy, Brian Price's wife Gwen is head of that company.  I heard this from both instructors at SIGMA and they recommended Revival as the alternative.

I think you're thinking of Revival.us, not Historic Enterprises. HE is run by Jeff Hedgecock and his wife, I think. Revival.us is Brian Price and his wife.

Note that Revival.us and Revival Clothing are two separate things.

[SirNathanQ]

Yeah, the armour styles issue is very flexible. And it's interesting to note that for the longest time (not by the late 15th though methinks) that they were doing their best to conquer Italy.

I point my legs to the Revival arming doublet with no problem. Biggest issue for me was the stitching attaching to points (leg) burst out after a demo.
No big issue. Linen was fine, Leather was fine, just get Mum to sew it back on.

But since your budget is about 5 times mine is, go with separate pourpoint/doublet.
Best armour is recommended by alot of people, and they do good work. Gotta watch that language barrier though. (although enough people this side of the pond have been sporting their stuff, so there's obviously a solution...)

[Joshua Santana]

Brethren:  I think that my Teachers at SIGMA are the ones who unknowingly are confused.  I will tell this right now for possible discussion on Tuesday night.

Das Bill:  Thank you so much for your help.  It is most appreciated.  If Ice Falcon and Merc Tailors are out.  This leaves me with Historic Enterprises and Best Armor.  What are your views concerning Historic Enterprises? 

I have looked at Best Armor at their 15th Century Harness which doesn't look bad.  Except there are few straps on their and it looks like a man at arms harness, rather than a full harness.









If there are alternatives, Historic Enterprises has these

http://historicenterprises.com/armour-full-italoflemish-circa-1471-p-575.html?cPath=101_133

http://historicenterprises.com/armour-full-italian-milanese-circa-1470-p-574.html?cPath=101_133

Also, this arming doublet: has anyone used this?  If so, how does it fare?  Good?  Bad?
And I might get this either red or blue

http://historicenterprises.com/doublet-arming-15th-century-w-free-arming-coif-p-713.html?cPath=101_135

In summary: which if these harnesses are more accurate?

[Joshua Santana]

Sir Wolf:  Thanks for the websites!  This definitely helps when looking for alternatives.

[Sir Wolf]

ummm i'm lost. the Milanese version has straps. its the style.

there is no difference between a knight and a man at arms harness. they are interchangeable. the difference is socially and monetarily within the peerage of the realm

[Das Bill]

Das Bill:  Thank you so much for your help.  It is most appreciated.  If Ice Falcon and Merc Tailors are out.  This leaves me with Historic Enterprises and Best Armor.  What are your views concerning Historic Enterprises? 

Oh, you have WAY more options than just them! Just look at this links page, for starters:
http://www.myarmoury.com/links.html

I haven't had personal experience with HE, so I can't really say one way or another other than that they look quite good.

I have looked at Best Armor at their 15th Century Harness which doesn't look bad.  Except there are few straps on their and it looks like a man at arms harness, rather than a full harness.

As Sir Wolf says, there's no difference between a man at arm's harness and a full harness, and straps are just a part of Milanese armor. Check out these two in Vienna.

[Joshua Santana]

Das Bill:  Thanks and best of all, I found this

http://www.wassonartistry.com/index.php

http://www.wassonartistry.com/armor.php?w=late15thcent





Now this is the armor I like and want to order!  Finally! 

[Sir Wolf]

watson is good. nice pic. i had lost his url

[Joshua Santana]

Local (NY) and best of all, this suit looks exactly what Ia m looking for. 

Any thoughts, views on this guy?


If not, I will look his work on MyArmory.com and


Breastplate detail for scrutinizing!

Another thing, his Gothic Harnesses are simply gorgeous!  And he has one for sale, hhmm....
which one to choose now? 

[Joshua Santana]

On second, I will settle with the Late 15th century Italian Harness once and for all!

The problem has finally been solved!