The Virtues of Ultima

[Sir Edward]

Heh, this actually has its own wikipedia page: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virtues_of_Ultima

The Ultima series was a series of computer games that ran mostly through the 80's and 90's. They were fairly typical fantasy games, in terms of the setting and concepts. But the thing that really set them apart was that they presented consequences for the player's actions. There was a system of virtues, that when broken, could have actual ramifications within the story.

The creators of the games felt that the one thing that was wrong with most of the games at the time, was that as the player, you're supposedly acting as the hero within this fictional world, but would end up causing far more death and destruction than the villain ever did. The villain would typically not be seen until the end of the game, and most of the villain's presence wouldn't be detectable in most of the game world. In Ultima, they wanted to have moral choices that would have a visible impact, and strong visible indicators of the actual evil that you were fighting against.

So within the game's fictional Britannia, there was a code of virtues. As the player, you played the part of The Avatar (who was the embodiment of those virtues). These are not unlike a list of chivalric virtues.

It started with three main principles: Love, Truth, and Courage. The eight virtues derived from combinations of these, and the list was: Honesty, Compassion, Valor, Justice, Sacrifice, Honor, Spirituality, and Humility.

Throughout the series, they used the Ankh as the main symbol of the avatar and the virtues. (Note-- this is not why I have one in my arms, but rather contributed to me instantly resonating with these games. I already wore one for several years before discovering the Ultima series)

I thought I'd bring it up as another example of popular culture having a view of chivalry that isn't called chivalry by name. How often do you see a chivalric philosophy being espoused in video games? It's actually rather cool that it happened at all.

Sadly all that's left of Ultima is the MMO game, Ultima Online. It launched back in '97 and is still going, though it's now extremely dated in terms of the gameplay and graphics.

[Sir Wolf]

yeah ultima!

[Sir Rodney]

Mount & Blade has honor points that are difficult to earn and easy to loose.  Your King can send you on some nasty missions that require you to sacrifice a member of your unit.  Declining the mission lowers his opinion of you, but you keep your honor.  I like to duel other knights to defend the honor of a lady they have spread nasty gossip about.  You gain honor and a foe all at the same time!

[Sir William]

M&B...that that Warband you guys were talking about in another thread?  I'm looking forward to The First Templar, coming out for PC and X360 on May 10.  Initial screens I'd seen give it a retro look a la Dragon's Lair(Dirk the Daring anyone?) but now it looks as if they've freshened it up a bit.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_First_Templar

[Sir James A]

Sir William, I'm looking forward to that one too. It reminds me of Assassin's Creed, and I loooooove that series. It has it's own "honor among thieves" chivalry in the first one, and the second and second + 1/2 one (brotherhood) are just phenomenal.

Sir Edward, I vaguely remember VII and VIII. The shop keepers would always be after me, I pilfered the large 2 handed sword near the beginning. That's the only thing I remember 'changing' during the game, but I never made it too far since I didn't have a guide and I was, I think, 13 or 14 years old at the time.

One thing that makes me wonder ... I'm trying to save their town / the world, and they can't give me a basic sword, some armor and some medicine? RPGs always make me wonder why nobody likes me til AFTER I save them - and then they still charge me, albeit sometimes with a "generous" 10% discount.

[Sir Edward]

The Ultima that was truly ground-breaking was Ultima IV, in which the main character becomes the Avatar at the end. You simply couldn't complete the game if you committed too many crimes against the virtues. After that, most of the games had more mild ramifications, but they were still constant reminders.

In Ultima VII for instance, you could eventually drive your companions away. They'd quit from your party if they witnessed you steal too many items. In some of the cities, the guards could be called on you if the shopkeepers witnessed it. So there were consequences.

Unfortunately I can't really say what they did in VIII and IX, since I didn't have the patience to get very far into them.

[Sir William]

Sir James, I am an avid fan of the AC series...although I must confess I've not played Brotherhood yet.  The series took a turn that I don't normally go in for (although Fable 3 did a similar thing and I kinda liked it)...that and COD: Black Ops hogged nearly ALL of my time for a long while there....I blame my friends for that somewhat- one of them, it was my fault he got involved but then HE got all HIS friends involved and that was that as they say.

Sir Edward, what was the guard presence like in Ultima?  Were they beatable or were you forced to deal with them?  I ask because a similar system is in place in ES: Oblivion (anyone waiting on Skyrim like me?) - the one thing I hated was that as soon as you committed a crime, the town guard was immediately notified if someone saw you do it.  I mean immediate- the witness could not have had time to make the report but here came the guards!

I would at times engage them but that's not advisable until you've leveled up enough to be a match for them- even then it is like fighting a boss and God forbid you should run afoul of more than one of them!  LOL

Unlike in Assassin's Creed where you could kill all the guardsmen you wanted, they'd keep coming, but you could keep killing.  In AC1, I managed about 30 bodies before they stopped spawning...good times.

[Sir Edward]

You know, it's been a while, so I'm not 100% sure. I think they were beatable later in the game, but certainly not early on.

[Joshua Santana]

Though I am not a computer game player. 

But the virtues of Ultima definitely sound very similar to the Code of Chivalry.

That is a good thing!

 

[Sir James A]

You know, it's been a while, so I'm not 100% sure. I think they were beatable later in the game, but certainly not early on.

I always ran and crossed my fingers, although I never even found any companions, so I must have been REALLY not far, but I do know I managed to get my sword skill and strength reasonably high and combat wasn't overly difficult at that point.