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The Iron Chicken stance has got to go (SCA).

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Thorsteinn:
OK.. I got to say this: The Iron Chicken stance has got to go. It's mildly dishonorable, and not really historic.

If were all armoured like in 1066 then there are no basket hilts and no gauntlets, and while chopping at someones hand may not be telling, it certainly is possible if he puts his stationary hand out there to be hit!

Thus using, what in period would be an unarmoured hand, to cover your head because you are relying upon the honor of your opponent to not strike your hand like a fool deserves is dumb, unhistoric (even for us), and dishonorable. Let alone what it would do for your sword, and what it is doing to your shoulder.

The Iron Chicken, and all it's derivatives, have got to go. They are crap. Stupid dishonorable crap.

Discuss.

-Ivan

SirNathanQ:
Well ou can tell by the name that it's a coward's tool afterall..... ;)

But could you provide pictures? I would like to see this lunacy.

Thorsteinn:
I disagree about the guy in the 1st shot a little bit, it looks like a modified Iron chicken but I'm probably wrong as I cannot see his sword position. One guy sarcastically related it to something called "Guardia di Testa"

"The guy on his knees in this picture is in a fairly typical SCA high guard (not "iron chicken"):"- Blaine de Navarre


"The guy on the right in this picture is in what I would call true "iron chicken":"-Blaine de Navarre


Not Guardia del Pollo di Ferro:

(Ox guard (Left), High guard (Right). From here: Viking Sword and Shield Combat Technique and Viking Shields.)

 Those are good guards, and they do not look like Guardia del Pollo di Ferro.


-Ivan

Sir Edward:
Yeah, the Iron Chicken strikes me as gaming the system via the rules. Any rule system will be susceptible to abuses, unfortunately. Personally I think to some degree this is inevitable when strikes to the hand and below the knee are disallowed, since the person can expose both their hands and their feet safely in an unrealistic way. I'd want to take the fingers off, or cut to the lower leg, since they're exposed.

I guess one potential side-effect here, is that the person doing this is exposing themselves to "being taught a lesson" by their opponent. I don't advocate anyone intentionally causing pain to their opponent, but the possibility exists that someone will target these "off target" areas anyway, and hit hard. Personally I'd rather use real guards and real technique, and not get hit at all.

If the blade gets past my defense and touches me, I feel I've failed to defend properly. Even if the rules of that bout discard the point.

EDIT: I also had a thought. I think the SCA rules can also allow some people to use shields that are larger than would have been used historically. Aircraft aluminum has revolutionized shield-making. But back in the day, a large shield would get in your own way, perhaps worse than it gets in the way of your opponent. :)

Thorsteinn:
I would say that I love about 95% of SCA combat. I even love the knee fighting as it adds a whole new side to how to beat an opponent, and I total get why we do not target where we do and I am behind the various reasons for it.

But if you were to imagine a behould tourney held in 1066 that even used a padded sword tip & a hardened leather face guard, but didn't do anything for the hands. Then you added in the Rules of the Lists, and thus discounted hands and lower legs as targets...

... you STILL wouldn't see folks using the Iron Chicken. They had an awareness that this would be training for war, and even baring that you wouldn't put your bare hand hanging out where it could be hit even accidentally. Heck, they don't even use that guard in Escrima right?

Iron Chicken bothers me as a Martial Artist, an SCA Fighter, and a West Kingdom Marshal.

-Ivan

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