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Main => The Armoury => Topic started by: Sir Ulrich on 2012-06-10, 06:17:46
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Well I been wearing my maille a few times at faires and I've learned that my kettle helm does NOT fit well over my maille coif, actually had rings digging into my forehead which hurt a bit. Maybe I need a large size helm similar to Joe Metz's kettle helm? Not really sure where to get one that is the design I want and isnt too heavy, I'm sorta fed up with the rings digging into me and cutting me due to the helm being too small... Any suggestions for a helmet type?
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How big is your head with your padding/mail on? A lot of places will make you a custom fit helm, you just need to get your measurements right
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I'm not sure but my head circumference is 22 1/2 inches, the padding is VERY thin and is only there really to keep the maille out of my hair. My coif is rather tight on my head and with the helm over it the helm can handle being on with JUST the padded coif but the maille over the padded coif is too much. I actually cut my forehead open pretty badly trying to force the helmet down, dont need that to happen again so I need a more comfortable helm, prolly in a larger size. I been considering the GDFB helms but they're 14 gauge which is too heavy for me, I am looking for 16-18 gauge to keep the weight down. Plus I only like kettle helms with a SINGLE ridge going down the center, the 4 segmented ones I dont like as much. Sucks being picky when in the USA you have limited options. May have to go with GDFB cause they're the only people I know who sells helms in size large and they're probably designed to go together with their coifs which I have a GDFB coif.
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I'm not sure but my head circumference is 22 1/2 inches, the padding is VERY thin and is only there really to keep the maille out of my hair. My coif is rather tight on my head and with the helm over it the helm can handle being on with JUST the padded coif but the maille over the padded coif is too much. I actually cut my forehead open pretty badly trying to force the helmet down, dont need that to happen again so I need a more comfortable helm, prolly in a larger size. I been considering the GDFB helms but they're 14 gauge which is too heavy for me, I am looking for 16-18 gauge to keep the weight down. Plus I only like kettle helms with a SINGLE ridge going down the center, the 4 segmented ones I dont like as much. Sucks being picky when in the USA you have limited options. May have to go with GDFB cause they're the only people I know who sells helms in size large and they're probably designed to go together with their coifs which I have a GDFB coif.
I see, sounds like you need a custom made Helm, which Helm are you looking at?
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Found this one in 18ga-
http://www.timelesstailors.com/p-3596-14th-century-kettle-hat-gh0152.aspx (http://www.timelesstailors.com/p-3596-14th-century-kettle-hat-gh0152.aspx)
Is that the style you're looking for? They also offer custom sizing, too, which basically just negates the $25 off for using 18ga rather than 16ga. Standard size is 23.5", so if you have less than an inch of padding/mail you should be good with the standard size.
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Perhaps you need a better arming cap? I make sure that mine is always covering the forhead area where my mail begins to avoid having the mail resting against my head there. Is your helmet lined or padded at all and does it have strapping? If it is lined, perhaps you just need to adjust the lining a bit to allow it to fit better over your mail. I have never had any of these problems with wearing my kettle helm over my coif, but I do have a smaller head. This sometimes makes it difficult to find hats and helmets that fit me properly.
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Yeah I was considering that place till I saw the prices, they have the design I am looking for as well but I want it to be combat worthy too so I think 16 gauge is the way to go. Price is a bit out of my range though as the liner costs way too much seriously. May just go for the GDFB one in large but I'm worried it will be TOO big. Well KOA could always exchange it so I guess I'm gonna try that out.
When it comes to arming caps I would prefer a padded coif to an arming cap cause I got long hair which would get caught in the maille, plus I dun like the feeling of maille against bare skin, I knew I should of gotten a wedge riveted coif which would be less 'pokey" on the skin, but they were all out of stock. But yeah if anyone can link me to a decent arming cap that isn't hard foam like the GDFB one and comes in a darker color I would be thankful.
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Ulrich, if you intend on wearing a helm over your maille coif, then you'll need an actual padded arming cap- elsewise the weight of the helm will press the rings into your head every time. The linen coif is just meant to be used as a head covering, not as padding for armor.
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the larger gdfb ones should fit, but they are a tad heavy being 14 guage
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Ulrich, if you intend on wearing a helm over your maille coif, then you'll need an actual padded arming cap- elsewise the weight of the helm will press the rings into your head every time. The linen coif is just meant to be used as a head covering, not as padding for armor.
definitely this
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I wouldn't take a 16 gauge helm as combat ready, or a kettle helm in general, unless you're using a separate bargrill or some kind of extra protection. The single-piece kettle helms will get quite thin being dished out, vs the 4-panels which don't need to be dished/raised much. I'd settle for no less than 14 gauge for a combat helm, or 12 gauge if I could get it. You're talking head protection, IMO, it's better to overengineer than suffer serious injury. However ... I'd get a separate, lightweight helm, 16 or 18 gauge, for faire / non-combat wearing.
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depends on what sorta combat. sca no. living history/ live steel yes. BOTN no etc. :)
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I wouldn't take a 16 gauge helm as combat ready, or a kettle helm in general, unless you're using a separate bargrill or some kind of extra protection. The single-piece kettle helms will get quite thin being dished out, vs the 4-panels which don't need to be dished/raised much. I'd settle for no less than 14 gauge for a combat helm, or 12 gauge if I could get it. You're talking head protection, IMO, it's better to overengineer than suffer serious injury. However ... I'd get a separate, lightweight helm, 16 or 18 gauge, for faire / non-combat wearing.
I'm told that spring steel can be made in lighter gauges and still be as strong as cold-rolled mild in heavy gauge; even better would be for it to be tempered as that gives it a hardness unparalleled- is that not so? Of course, such things would drive up the cost considerably and not all armorers work with that medium.
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I'm told that spring steel can be made in lighter gauges and still be as strong as cold-rolled mild in heavy gauge; even better would be for it to be tempered as that gives it a hardness unparalleled- is that not so? Of course, such things would drive up the cost considerably and not all armorers work with that medium.
Typically armorer's that work in spring steel will harden and temper your armor. Mild steel by definition cannot be heat treated / tempered. It can be work hardened a little bit, but not like quality spring steel. And yes, spring can be made in much lighter gauge and be stronger than a corresponding heavier gauge mild steel. When I upgraded to hardened spring steel I never looked back.
It's a significant weight difference, and a significant strength increase. Spring steel will not dent like mild steel unless you set it on the ground and just went to town with a sledge hammer. It is however, considerably more expensive than mild steels. If you don't mind the price increase, it's worth every penny. Just realize that if you invest in spring steel armor, it better fit right, because once it's hardened, you're not going to reshape it with a hammer.
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I wouldn't take a 16 gauge helm as combat ready, or a kettle helm in general, unless you're using a separate bargrill or some kind of extra protection. The single-piece kettle helms will get quite thin being dished out, vs the 4-panels which don't need to be dished/raised much. I'd settle for no less than 14 gauge for a combat helm, or 12 gauge if I could get it. You're talking head protection, IMO, it's better to overengineer than suffer serious injury. However ... I'd get a separate, lightweight helm, 16 or 18 gauge, for faire / non-combat wearing.
I'm told that spring steel can be made in lighter gauges and still be as strong as cold-rolled mild in heavy gauge; even better would be for it to be tempered as that gives it a hardness unparalleled- is that not so? Of course, such things would drive up the cost considerably and not all armorers work with that medium.
Ian covered it very well. In short, it's considerably more expensive, and a lot harder to find - but if you can find and afford it, the only thing better than spring steel is spring stainless steel - I only know of one shop who works with it at the moment.
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I'd consider a spring steel helm but it would cost a lot. I don't have plans to do SCA fighting as I cant stand how rattan weapons handle and I think it's too farby for my tastes to be honest. So all I really need is a helm that works well and isn't too tight. The GDFB one is the one I'm eyeing the most right now despite it being rather heavy. I just wish there were more options than just that though. Not looking for stainless as I want my stuff to develop a patina rather than stay fresh looking all the time, maybe even blacken it.
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Ulrich, just out of curiosity- if you do not intend to wear your armor in combat, why not go for lighter alternatives? For instance, I picked up an aluminum hauberk for like $200; it came with chausses, sleeves and an integrated coif. Altogether it weighs maybe 15 lbs? Unless you're up close and personal, it looks like the real deal. Sir Edward wears aluminum maille as well...altho you can't tell by looking at his avatar picture but the maille you see, that's aluminum butted. Just like mine. Worth a thought as weight is a real concern...it also has a dark patina style look to it.
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Well I been wearing my maille a few times at faires and I've learned that my kettle helm does NOT fit well over my maille coif, actually had rings digging into my forehead which hurt a bit. Maybe I need a large size helm similar to Joe Metz's kettle helm? Not really sure where to get one that is the design I want and isnt too heavy, I'm sorta fed up with the rings digging into me and cutting me due to the helm being too small... Any suggestions for a helmet type?
I suggest trying something that fits properly & comfortable. First thing, Kettle hats provide little protection & try a padded liner or cap as opposed to maille under a Kettle hat. If you want to try something comfortable, I wear a Pembridge style helmet or a Crusader-era Great helmet depending on my character. I wear a padded cap/liner, maille coif, and then a MachoMan padded head-guard w/ a velcro chin-strap (If they don't know, why tell them). If fits perfectly snug, doesn't pinch/snag or leave oil marks on your face, & when I take a head shot with an aluminum waster, I hear & feel little. But it leaves a good ding in the crown but that's what armorers are for. The Downside: Little visibility. The Plus: Good breathing holes & protection. Hope it helps.
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From what I heard that stuff comes apart easily at least the MRL stuff does. I am starting to think I shoulda went with it but I like a lot of my stuff to be functional as I got a limited budget being younger and not having a stable job other than odd jobs I do. The darker patina on that stuff would prolly work for me though as it would look like iron rather than another metal which I'm quite obsessed with my maille looking like iron. I would like my armor to double for both combat and wearing at faires. Shoulda waited for titanium maille but that was expensive and out of my budget range.
Thing is I like the kettle helm because of the practicality of it. I tried on great helms before and dont care for the poor visibility and heat of it in the summer. It's good for fighting but bad for faires and I mainly bought my kettle helm for my "foot soldier" kit because I was too poor at the moment to buy armor and refused to go as a partial knight so I went for a route that didnt really require a lot of expensive armor. Guess I should get a great helm but that wouldnt be very practical for a faire and it's MUCH heavier than a kettle helm. You dun see many kettle helms at faires and usually I get complemented for my kettle helm by a lot of faire goers. The design of great helm I want is the maciejowski bible one with larger eye holes and breathing holes similar to Joe Metz's but thats hard to find. Every design I want is hard to find which frustrates me.
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From what I heard that stuff comes apart easily at least the MRL stuff does. I am starting to think I shoulda went with it but I like a lot of my stuff to be functional as I got a limited budget being younger and not having a stable job other than odd jobs I do. The darker patina on that stuff would prolly work for me though as it would look like iron rather than another metal which I'm quite obsessed with my maille looking like iron. I would like my armor to double for both combat and wearing at faires. Shoulda waited for titanium maille but that was expensive and out of my budget range.
Thing is I like the kettle helm because of the practicality of it. I tried on great helms before and dont care for the poor visibility and heat of it in the summer. It's good for fighting but bad for faires and I mainly bought my kettle helm for my "foot soldier" kit because I was too poor at the moment to buy armor and refused to go as a partial knight so I went for a route that didnt really require a lot of expensive armor. Guess I should get a great helm but that wouldnt be very practical for a faire and it's MUCH heavier than a kettle helm. You dun see many kettle helms at faires and usually I get complemented for my kettle helm by a lot of faire goers. The design of great helm I want is the maciejowski bible one with larger eye holes and breathing holes similar to Joe Metz's but thats hard to find. Every design I want is hard to find which frustrates me.
Just food for thought. The MachoMan padding actually lightens the weight of my helmet. As for the padded cap, mine held up nicely for 4 years now & I wash it regularly. The only price in helmets comes from the design & metal-gauge. You can get a good replica helmet reasonably prices (Range from $60-$200) on average in many fashions. Doesn't need to be fluted. One guy I know says he paid $1800 for his fluted Armet style helmet. I doubt that to this day but it takes some dings & almost shows no damage at all so who knows ...... Kettle helms work good for foot soldiers or men-at-arms.
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Ulrich, this White Mountain Armory Mac bible helm is up for sale on AA:
http://forums.armourarchive.org/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=150183&hilit=WMA+Mac+Bible+helm (http://forums.armourarchive.org/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=150183&hilit=WMA+Mac+Bible+helm)
- it has the wider eye slots and the breathing holes...and although it is painted red and white, I'm sure i you paint the white part black it'll fit in with your colors quite well. Just a thought.
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looks nice
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One guy I know says he paid $1800 for his fluted Armet style helmet. I doubt that to this day but it takes some dings & almost shows no damage at all so who knows
Definitely possible - I've seen armets / close helmets float around the $2k mark, and that's for mild steel - spring steel or stainless, and it'll be even higher.
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One guy I know says he paid $1800 for his fluted Armet style helmet. I doubt that to this day but it takes some dings & almost shows no damage at all so who knows
Definitely possible - I've seen armets / close helmets float around the $2k mark, and that's for mild steel - spring steel or stainless, and it'll be even higher.
James is right on. Heat treated spring helmets are going to be in that price range easy. Not for a Norman or a Kettle maybe, but for the Armet you're describing, assuming it's spring, he got off light staying under 2k.
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http://revival.us/linenarmingcoif.aspx (http://revival.us/linenarmingcoif.aspx)
Is that a decent arming coif? I already have a GDFB one but it's got foam and it isnt very flexible or good at all, it's just a piece of foam covered in canvas and doesnt flex at all.
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looks ok. i have one from here http://www.merchantadventurers.com/medstock/admed.htm (http://www.merchantadventurers.com/medstock/admed.htm) been using it for about 10 years or so.
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My main problem is it covers my forehead which coifs of this type do not cover my forehead. Maybe I should sell the coif I own and get a wedge riveted coif instead which would dig less into my forehead I suppose. They are in stock but at the time I got mine they weren't. It's mainly the rivets that dig into my skin and are rather sharp. With the icefalcon maille it isnt the case as they're peened over rather well and much better quality than the GDFB maille which is pokey as hell. I want mine in black though cause I sorta hate white, I look terrible in white.
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you can move the coif any which way to cover what is there. some people use a leather cord thru the mail around the forehead to help round it out when they have smaller heads. experiment a lil and make it work. i always play with mine a lil in the reflection of the car when i'm at events to get it to sit where i want it to
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you can move the coif any which way to cover what is there. some people use a leather cord thru the mail around the forehead to help round it out when they have smaller heads. experiment a lil and make it work. i always play with mine a lil in the reflection of the car when i'm at events to get it to sit where i want it to
HAHAHAHA. I thought I was the only one who did this ;D
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you can move the coif any which way to cover what is there. some people use a leather cord thru the mail around the forehead to help round it out when they have smaller heads. experiment a lil and make it work. i always play with mine a lil in the reflection of the car when i'm at events to get it to sit where i want it to
HAHAHAHA. I thought I was the only one who did this ;D
That works but leather is kind of rigid & if not the right softness, it feels rough wrapped around your scalp (especially with a coif). I improvise with a braided-cord colored to match my surcoat that is cheap, soft, flexible, and can be easily wrapped around my head. It holds my coif in place easily and very natural feeling to it. Just get the right thickness & colors and it's easy to do.
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I cant find any kettle helm designs that really satisfy what I want in the USA within my price range (below 200). Looks like I'm gonna have to order overseas for one. I want one thats like Joe Metz's but the closest find I could find was sold in Europe. http://gdfb.com/medieval-kettle-hat-size-l-p-541.html (http://gdfb.com/medieval-kettle-hat-size-l-p-541.html)
May have to make an overseas order for it because it's closest what I want. That or the 13th century one they offer, which is almost identical to the one I currently own but it somes in a larger size so it could fit my maille under it. I am way too picky with my time period I know but I opt for as much accuracy as I can get in some aspects. Seems most Americans want to reenact is the "plate era" and they only sell stuff from 1350+. Just wish I could see some examples of how period kettle helms looked, havent really seen any from the 1200s.
Guess getting a new kettle helm will have to wait, in the meantime I am buying a helm off of Sir William as soon as I get my paypal working which will work well for a 12th century Templar knight kit which I plan to make work for "Days of Knights" if I can go. Always wanted to go as a Templar and I already have a surcoat which needs tailoring but once i fix that I have an almost complete Templar kit minus chausses which not ALL knights had.