"Do not be tricked into thinking that there are no crocodiles just because the water is still."
                -- Malaysian Proverb

Author Topic: How "in shape" was the average knight or man at arms?  (Read 35537 times)

Sir William

  • Cogito ergo sum
  • Knight of the Order
  • Forum Veteran
  • ****
  • Posts: 7,154
Re: How "in shape" was the average knight or man at arms?
« Reply #45 on: 2010-11-08, 14:49:51 »
I guess it would depend on how much money he has...the more successful men-at-arms would probably eat meat, and better quality than their poorer compatriots and certainly better than the peasantry ate, by and large.  That's just speculative, I haven't read it was either one way or another.  I'd imagine a lot of their required nutrition would've come from plant sources too...I've read about 'horsebread' in more than one source and while it does not sound very tasty, it was quite useful for its time as a natural laxative.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horsebread
The Black Knight, Order of the Marshal
'Per Pale Azure and Sable, a Chevron counterchanged fimbriated argent.' 
“Pride makes a man, it drives him, it is the shield wall around his reputation.  Men die, but reputation does not.â€

Sir Edward

  • Forum Admin
  • Commander of the Order
  • Forum Veteran
  • *****
  • Posts: 9,340
  • Verum et Honorem.
    • ed.toton.org
Re: How "in shape" was the average knight or man at arms?
« Reply #46 on: 2010-11-08, 16:05:23 »

I'd say "it depends." :)  On campaign, it might be harder to have varied founds and a well rounded diet. But at home, most knights would be wealthy enough to pretty much get what they want. The horse is a lot harder to afford than decent food and good equipment.

Most monastic orders had tightly controlled rations, but the Templars, being a military order, actually would often require double rations of meat for their knights. So my feeling is they ate rather well too.

Sir Ed T. Toton III
Knight Commander, Order of the Marshal

( Personal Site | My Facebook )

Sir William

  • Cogito ergo sum
  • Knight of the Order
  • Forum Veteran
  • ****
  • Posts: 7,154
Re: How "in shape" was the average knight or man at arms?
« Reply #47 on: 2010-11-08, 17:17:50 »
The Templars obviously understood the importance of meat and performance as there is a direct correlation.  I wonder though, for Henry V for instance...what was his army eating or starving on?  How did 5000 men defeat a force 4 times their number that was also well-fed and better equipped?  I mean...besides the longbow...makes one wonder, limits of the human ability to withstand adversity of all kinds, physical, mental, emotional, spiritual.  Their feats border on the superhuman if you think about it...
The Black Knight, Order of the Marshal
'Per Pale Azure and Sable, a Chevron counterchanged fimbriated argent.' 
“Pride makes a man, it drives him, it is the shield wall around his reputation.  Men die, but reputation does not.â€

SirNathanQ

  • Knight of the Order
  • Forum Acolyte
  • ****
  • Posts: 1,742
  • "Nobiscum Deus" "Libertas ad omnes civitates"
Re: How "in shape" was the average knight or man at arms?
« Reply #48 on: 2010-11-11, 20:37:34 »
I would say that our knights would be massively strong, but not big. Harnesses show us that knights weren't beefcakes, but the act of repeated combat will toughen you up. For instance, I don't look impressively strong at all. There are a million football players that make me look small, but I'm stronger than most of them. Also, weightlifting builds muscle and was developed by bodybuilders. It's mostly bulk.
There are guys that can out lift me but they cannot actually do some of the things I can do. Most "weight training" I get is pushing 600lb bales of hay and things that involve no weights. I'm also good at projecting my strength, which means I can hit harder and throw around 150lb friends (or opponents) around like ragdolls, while technically stronger people cannot. I think knights might have been good at this also...
Knights would be very smiler. Not very big, but can project some serious force.
Also, tone is overrated. I beat the kids w/ washboard abs on the crunch machine all day. Studies have shown that having extreme tone is in fact not ideal for activities knights would do. Your body needs something to feed on when your food energy is gone. That's how you lose weight. If you don't have this "buffer" your body will begin to cannibalize itself. Starting with the muscles. So for prolonged extremely strenuous activities (battle) it's actually decremental to be wickedly toned. The only reason modern marathon runners and such do not do this is because they can accurately predict what the activity is going to be, energy used, and eat accordingly. When your armies encamped in enemy territory, and you don't even know if the enemy will give you a chance to get breakfast, you better have some reserve source of energy.   
"The maximum use of force is in no way incompatible with the simultaneous use of the intellect." -Carl Von Clausewitz
"He is truly a fearless knight and secure on every side, for his soul is protected by the armor of faith just as his body is protected by armor of steel." -Saint Bernard of Clairvoux

Sir Wolf

  • He Who is Not to be Named
  • Knight of the Order
  • Forum Veteran
  • ****
  • Posts: 5,389
  • i have too many hats
    • man e faces
Re: How "in shape" was the average knight or man at arms?
« Reply #49 on: 2010-11-11, 20:40:55 »
bunch of dawg gone Chuck Norris's

Sir William

  • Cogito ergo sum
  • Knight of the Order
  • Forum Veteran
  • ****
  • Posts: 7,154
Re: How "in shape" was the average knight or man at arms?
« Reply #50 on: 2010-11-12, 15:43:34 »
LMAO

well said, Sirs Nathan and Wolf.  Sir Nathan brings up a good point...since science wasn't what it is now, all those knights would've had to go on was experience.  As to their size, Nathan's right...you don't have to be big to be strong...unless you're a longbowman in which case you didn't have much choice, you were gonna be big just because of the job you had to do.
The Black Knight, Order of the Marshal
'Per Pale Azure and Sable, a Chevron counterchanged fimbriated argent.' 
“Pride makes a man, it drives him, it is the shield wall around his reputation.  Men die, but reputation does not.â€

SirNathanQ

  • Knight of the Order
  • Forum Acolyte
  • ****
  • Posts: 1,742
  • "Nobiscum Deus" "Libertas ad omnes civitates"
Re: How "in shape" was the average knight or man at arms?
« Reply #51 on: 2010-11-17, 14:35:38 »
Yeah, and then you get your back muscles fused together from drawing a 140lb bow all day.  :o
Not such a hot sounding job anymore is it?  ;)
"The maximum use of force is in no way incompatible with the simultaneous use of the intellect." -Carl Von Clausewitz
"He is truly a fearless knight and secure on every side, for his soul is protected by the armor of faith just as his body is protected by armor of steel." -Saint Bernard of Clairvoux

Sir William

  • Cogito ergo sum
  • Knight of the Order
  • Forum Veteran
  • ****
  • Posts: 7,154
Re: How "in shape" was the average knight or man at arms?
« Reply #52 on: 2010-11-17, 15:02:43 »
Hey man, Archers got the babes back in the day- and they were accessible to all, not just the noblewomen!  lol
The Black Knight, Order of the Marshal
'Per Pale Azure and Sable, a Chevron counterchanged fimbriated argent.' 
“Pride makes a man, it drives him, it is the shield wall around his reputation.  Men die, but reputation does not.â€

SirNathanQ

  • Knight of the Order
  • Forum Acolyte
  • ****
  • Posts: 1,742
  • "Nobiscum Deus" "Libertas ad omnes civitates"
Re: How "in shape" was the average knight or man at arms?
« Reply #53 on: 2010-11-18, 02:47:48 »
Quality over quantity  ;)
"The maximum use of force is in no way incompatible with the simultaneous use of the intellect." -Carl Von Clausewitz
"He is truly a fearless knight and secure on every side, for his soul is protected by the armor of faith just as his body is protected by armor of steel." -Saint Bernard of Clairvoux

Sir William

  • Cogito ergo sum
  • Knight of the Order
  • Forum Veteran
  • ****
  • Posts: 7,154
Re: How "in shape" was the average knight or man at arms?
« Reply #54 on: 2010-11-18, 17:20:02 »
Yup; but only England was ever able to field a sizable contingent of archers to complement the army...Henry V's was mostly archers by the time they reached Agincourt.
The Black Knight, Order of the Marshal
'Per Pale Azure and Sable, a Chevron counterchanged fimbriated argent.' 
“Pride makes a man, it drives him, it is the shield wall around his reputation.  Men die, but reputation does not.â€

SirNathanQ

  • Knight of the Order
  • Forum Acolyte
  • ****
  • Posts: 1,742
  • "Nobiscum Deus" "Libertas ad omnes civitates"
Re: How "in shape" was the average knight or man at arms?
« Reply #55 on: 2010-11-23, 15:38:02 »
Hey, I was referring to the women!  :D
As soldiers, those longbowmen were pretty fierce. Good at putting arrows in the horses of those ingenious Frenchmen charging hedges of stakes...  8) 
"The maximum use of force is in no way incompatible with the simultaneous use of the intellect." -Carl Von Clausewitz
"He is truly a fearless knight and secure on every side, for his soul is protected by the armor of faith just as his body is protected by armor of steel." -Saint Bernard of Clairvoux

Sir Wolf

  • He Who is Not to be Named
  • Knight of the Order
  • Forum Veteran
  • ****
  • Posts: 5,389
  • i have too many hats
    • man e faces
Re: How "in shape" was the average knight or man at arms?
« Reply #56 on: 2010-11-27, 12:19:13 »
this knight has .8 lbs to his goal. 180.8 this morning. even after Thanksgiving and its many desserts

Sir Brian

  • Knight of the Order
  • Forum Veteran
  • ****
  • Posts: 4,735
  • Felix uxor beatam vitam - Happy Wife Happy Life
    • Order of the Marshal
Re: How "in shape" was the average knight or man at arms?
« Reply #57 on: 2010-11-27, 12:40:25 »
Congratulations Sir Wolf! Well done! I applaud your dedication to achieving your goal!  :)

I unfortunately have reached an obstinate plateau @ 220 pounds. I’ve decided to alternate my workouts a little by alternating my weight training with longsword exercises. Surprisingly I work up more of a sweat with the longsword practice than with the weights which is really just building strength more than cardio.  :-\
"Chivalry our Strength, Brotherhood our sword"
Vert, on a Chief wavy Argent a Rose Sable,
a Gryphon Segreant Or

[img width=100 height=100]
<a href="http://s221.photobucket.com/user/Tah908/media/LP_Medals_zpsq7zzdvve.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i221.photobucket.

Sir Wolf

  • He Who is Not to be Named
  • Knight of the Order
  • Forum Veteran
  • ****
  • Posts: 5,389
  • i have too many hats
    • man e faces
Re: How "in shape" was the average knight or man at arms?
« Reply #58 on: 2010-11-27, 12:59:00 »
i know how that is. i tried to lose weight once before and couldn't' break 200 so i gave up. DON'T GIVE UP.

i need to start hitting the treadmill again or some sort of exercise. all of this weight loose since the baby has been born is just portion control. hehe my tummy is a lil flabby from extra skin ;)

Sir Patrick

  • Knight of the Order
  • Forum Acolyte
  • ****
  • Posts: 1,647
  • Nex pro inhonesto, Deus pro totus.
    • The Order of the Marshal
Re: How "in shape" was the average knight or man at arms?
« Reply #59 on: 2010-11-29, 04:51:42 »
this knight has .8 lbs to his goal. 180.8 this morning. even after Thanksgiving and its many desserts

Huzzah, Sir Wolf, on that accomplishment!

Quote
I unfortunately have reached an obstinate plateau @ 220 pounds. I’ve decided to alternate my workouts a little by alternating my weight training with longsword exercises. Surprisingly I work up more of a sweat with the longsword practice than with the weights which is really just building strength more than cardio.
 

Agreed with Sir Wolf.  DON'T GIVE UP!  I've often found alternating the workout makes a big difference.  A mix of weights and cardio works best for me, and I try to mix up the routine every six weeks or so (screws around with muscle memory so the buggers can't get lazy).
Gules, a chevron argent between three cinquefoils ermine.
"Better to live one day as a lion, than a thousand as a lamb."
Knight, Order of the Marshal