"Mistakes are always forgivable, if one has the courage to admit them."
                -- Bruce Lee

Author Topic: Chivalry and Etiquette  (Read 6908 times)

Don Jorge

  • Learning is living...
  • Yeoman of the Order
  • Forum Follower
  • **
  • Posts: 480
  • He who fears death is already dead...
Re: Chivalry and Etiquette
« Reply #15 on: 2014-02-20, 22:21:19 »
Personally I am okay with striving for the romantic ideal...even if I cannot achieve it I will try my best and hopefully leave the world a better place for it...

Naythan

  • Naythan
  • Yeoman of the Order
  • Forum Acolyte
  • **
  • Posts: 1,697
  • I am Steel breaker!
Re: Chivalry and Etiquette
« Reply #16 on: 2014-02-20, 22:39:43 »
I think many follow chivalrous lives, but they mostly take parts of it in which the believe in. Chivalry is what you make it out to be, at least following out of the rules of chivalry or guidelines per say.
There are many here if not most or even all that live out most of the chivalric ideals (again, if not All the ideals)
Nathan Phillip Max
Page of the Order
"Theough si ambulavero in valle umbrae mortis, non timebo mala,..."

Sir Patrick

  • Knight of the Order
  • Forum Acolyte
  • ****
  • Posts: 1,646
  • Nex pro inhonesto, Deus pro totus.
    • The Order of the Marshal
Re: Chivalry and Etiquette
« Reply #17 on: 2014-02-20, 23:55:15 »
Personally I am okay with striving for the romantic ideal...even if I cannot achieve it I will try my best and hopefully leave the world a better place for it...

It is the ideal because it is unattainable. That is why I strive for it. The journey can never be done, so I can never stop trying to be better.
Gules, a chevron argent between three cinquefoils ermine.
"Better to live one day as a lion, than a thousand as a lamb."
Knight, Order of the Marshal

SirNathanQ

  • Knight of the Order
  • Forum Acolyte
  • ****
  • Posts: 1,742
  • "Nobiscum Deus" "Libertas ad omnes civitates"
Re: Chivalry and Etiquette
« Reply #18 on: 2014-02-21, 06:17:25 »
Chivalry, and Etiquette are different things in my mind, if related.
Chivalry is the value sets expected of one who seeks to be "Knightly", or chivalrous.
Etiquette is behaving socially gracefully in whatever context you happen to be.

Yes, they are related, since acting properly in public is a lot easier if your value set espouses being a decent human being.
But chivalry in many ways will and has, stayed the same. The core tenets, stripped of the social context (the realm of etiquette) still exist. Etiquette changes rapidly and drastically. The etiquette of the 19th century is as inappropriate today as the etiquette of the 15th century in the 19th century.
Etiquette varies region to region. The details (and in some cases, major parts) of etiquette can change just as fast as the cultural groups you interact with. Good luck using American socialization on  Germans, and have fun getting a beat down in Saudi Arabia by propping your feet up on a desk and revealing the bottom of your shoes.

Stay modern, chivalrous, cultured and classy gentlemen.
"The maximum use of force is in no way incompatible with the simultaneous use of the intellect." -Carl Von Clausewitz
"He is truly a fearless knight and secure on every side, for his soul is protected by the armor of faith just as his body is protected by armor of steel." -Saint Bernard of Clairvoux

Sir Brian

  • Knight of the Order
  • Forum Veteran
  • ****
  • Posts: 4,729
  • Felix uxor beatam vitam - Happy Wife Happy Life
    • Order of the Marshal
Re: Chivalry and Etiquette
« Reply #19 on: 2014-02-21, 12:29:14 »

What all this means to me is that if I want to feel like I am living up to my own ideals of behavior, only I can be the judge of my success. What chivalry means to everyone is irrelevant - it only matters what it means to me, because in the end whether I've lived up to "everyones" expectations won't be important. But it can be said there is one thing analagous with my medieval idealized knight persona and myself: my conscience must be my guide, and the same is true of every other man. I cannot control what others do, or what others think of me. I can only control my own actions, and attempt to live up to my own standards, and be content with myself or not based on that.

And perhaps most ironically of all, in all likelihood that is exactly what those unchivalrous, murdering, virtue paragon real knights of medieval times were thinking to themselves all those centuries ago.

As for myself, what I do is I usually look for opportunities to live up to my standards when it will really matter. I ask myself "Am I doing the right thing?" And if I fail that test, "What will I be able to live with tomorrow?"
 

Well stated and IMHO the essence of manhood.
"Chivalry our Strength, Brotherhood our sword"
Vert, on a Chief wavy Argent a Rose Sable,
a Gryphon Segreant Or

[img width=100 height=100]
<a href="http://s221.photobucket.com/user/Tah908/media/LP_Medals_zpsq7zzdvve.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i221.photobucket.

Sir William

  • Cogito ergo sum
  • Knight of the Order
  • Forum Veteran
  • ****
  • Posts: 7,154
Re: Chivalry and Etiquette
« Reply #20 on: 2014-02-21, 14:14:35 »
You raise a good point, Aiden...people in general are less personally social; with the added buffers of the internet and 'social media' people don't have to look one another in the eye when they speak/interact.  I do appreciate what such things afford us- my brother lives on the other side of the country and if it weren't for technology, we probably wouldn't see or speak to eachother but a handful of times over an entire life, you know?  But one cannot ignore the detriment to society that they have also been.
The Black Knight, Order of the Marshal
'Per Pale Azure and Sable, a Chevron counterchanged fimbriated argent.' 
“Pride makes a man, it drives him, it is the shield wall around his reputation.  Men die, but reputation does not.”

Aiden of Oreland

  • Squire of the Order
  • Forum Acolyte
  • ***
  • Posts: 926
  • Let faith be my shield and let joy be my steed
Re: Chivalry and Etiquette
« Reply #21 on: 2014-02-22, 04:45:57 »
You raise a good point, Aiden...people in general are less personally social; with the added buffers of the internet and 'social media' people don't have to look one another in the eye when they speak/interact.  I do appreciate what such things afford us- my brother lives on the other side of the country and if it weren't for technology, we probably wouldn't see or speak to eachother but a handful of times over an entire life, you know?  But one cannot ignore the detriment to society that they have also been.

Yes indeed, there are its benefits and its cons. If it were not for the internet we all would never have known one another and never would this community be what it is. I know for a fact that when speaking over social networks I am funny, talkative, always know what to say. But in person it is a WHOLE new situation. You don't have all the time in the world to think about what you want to say. Also I am part of the first generation EVER to grow up with these things. My generation is being raised with this technology. The generation before mine used an ancient tool called the type writer (what ever that is). Anyways, I mean if you REALLY want to get old fashion, there is always 12 century fox!
-"I raise not the sword, but the shield."-Aiden Max

Sir Douglas

  • Artificer of Stuff and Things
  • Knight of the Order
  • Forum Acolyte
  • ****
  • Posts: 815
  • In principio creavit Deus caelum et terram.
Re: Chivalry and Etiquette
« Reply #22 on: 2014-02-22, 05:31:24 »
You raise a good point, Aiden...people in general are less personally social; with the added buffers of the internet and 'social media' people don't have to look one another in the eye when they speak/interact.  I do appreciate what such things afford us- my brother lives on the other side of the country and if it weren't for technology, we probably wouldn't see or speak to eachother but a handful of times over an entire life, you know?  But one cannot ignore the detriment to society that they have also been.

Yes indeed, there are its benefits and its cons. If it were not for the internet we all would never have known one another and never would this community be what it is. I know for a fact that when speaking over social networks I am funny, talkative, always know what to say. But in person it is a WHOLE new situation. You don't have all the time in the world to think about what you want to say. Also I am part of the first generation EVER to grow up with these things. My generation is being raised with this technology. The generation before mine used an ancient tool called the type writer (what ever that is). Anyways, I mean if you REALLY want to get old fashion, there is always 12 century fox!

Indeed. I'm very introverted and find it much easier to communicate online. The odd thing is, I didn't really grown up with this technology, and I've only been part of the Internet world for about...oh, five or six years or so; I don't really feel like it's adversely affected a proper development of my interpersonal skills. I definitely agree that that's the case with a lot of the younger generation, but in my case, I've just always had lousy social skills. ;)

Now on the other hand, once I actually get to know someone and get over my initial shyness, I definitely prefer in-person communication where possible. I like being able to read facial expressions and hear inflection in tone. That's an important part of interpersonal communication that is completely lost with social media.
« Last Edit: 2014-02-22, 06:48:42 by DouglasTheYounger »
Per pale azure and argent, an eagle displayed per pale argent and sable, armed and langued or.

So a Norman, a Saxon, and a Viking walk into England....

Sir Rodney

  • Knight of the Order
  • Forum Acolyte
  • ****
  • Posts: 1,118
  • Inquit Corvus
    • The Mercenary Company Nevermore
Re: Chivalry and Etiquette
« Reply #23 on: 2014-02-22, 06:46:12 »
I'm very interested in the comments from our younger members. My children were issued IPads in 1st grade and are very savvy with modern communications. We try to instill "old fashion" values, turn off the devices, go play outside, and try not to kill each other. ;)

Our constant theme is "what do you do when you think no one is looking?"

It may be a bit simplistic, but it seems to fit the chivalry theme.
"Oh, what sad times are these when passing ruffians can say Ni at will to old ladies. There is a pestilence upon this land, nothing is sacred. Even those who arrange and design shrubberies are under considerable economic stress in this period in history." - Roger the Shrubber

Mike W.

  • Squire of the Order
  • Forum Acolyte
  • ***
  • Posts: 541
Re: Chivalry and Etiquette
« Reply #24 on: 2014-02-22, 14:35:04 »
As human beings are naturally social creatures, I place high importance on social interaction. I will not text, talk on, or check my phone in the presence of others. For certain matters of importance, I will only discuss them in person. Social technology does connect people over vast distances, but it also removes certain essential communication elements like voice inflection and body language. I believe, like all other things, it should be used in moderation and with responsibility.
D’azur à trois fasces d’argent, et au chef gueule chargé de trois étoiles d’or.

"The first duty of a man is the seeking after and the investigation of truth." - Marcus Tullius Cicero

Sir Rodney

  • Knight of the Order
  • Forum Acolyte
  • ****
  • Posts: 1,118
  • Inquit Corvus
    • The Mercenary Company Nevermore
Re: Chivalry and Etiquette
« Reply #25 on: 2014-02-23, 02:29:40 »
As human beings are naturally social creatures, I place high importance on social interaction. I will not text, talk on, or check my phone in the presence of others. For certain matters of importance, I will only discuss them in person. Social technology does connect people over vast distances, but it also removes certain essential communication elements like voice inflection and body language. I believe, like all other things, it should be used in moderation and with responsibility.

Agreed!  Emailing my parents in Mexico takes a distant 2nd place to Skyping them.  Voice inflection, body language and hand movement are critical to a full conversation.
"Oh, what sad times are these when passing ruffians can say Ni at will to old ladies. There is a pestilence upon this land, nothing is sacred. Even those who arrange and design shrubberies are under considerable economic stress in this period in history." - Roger the Shrubber

Sir James A

  • Weapons & Armor addict
  • Knight of the Order
  • Forum Veteran
  • ****
  • Posts: 6,037
Re: Chivalry and Etiquette
« Reply #26 on: 2014-02-23, 04:55:59 »
Personally I am okay with striving for the romantic ideal...even if I cannot achieve it I will try my best and hopefully leave the world a better place for it...

It is the ideal because it is unattainable. That is why I strive for it. The journey can never be done, so I can never stop trying to be better.

The only person you need to be better than is the you of yesterday. :)
Knight, Order of the Marshal
Sable, a chevron between three lions statant Argent

Naythan

  • Naythan
  • Yeoman of the Order
  • Forum Acolyte
  • **
  • Posts: 1,697
  • I am Steel breaker!
Re: Chivalry and Etiquette
« Reply #27 on: 2014-02-25, 01:36:43 »
Chivalry, and Etiquette are different things in my mind, if related.
Chivalry is the value sets expected of one who seeks to be "Knightly", or chivalrous.
Etiquette is behaving socially gracefully in whatever context you happen to be.

Yes, they are related, since acting properly in public is a lot easier if your value set espouses being a decent human being.
But chivalry in many ways will and has, stayed the same. The core tenets, stripped of the social context (the realm of etiquette) still exist. Etiquette changes rapidly and drastically. The etiquette of the 19th century is as inappropriate today as the etiquette of the 15th century in the 19th century.
Etiquette varies region to region. The details (and in some cases, major parts) of etiquette can change just as fast as the cultural groups you interact with. Good luck using American socialization on  Germans, and have fun getting a beat down in Saudi Arabia by propping your feet up on a desk and revealing the bottom of your shoes.

Stay modern, chivalrous, cultured and classy gentlemen.

I agree with this.
Nathan Phillip Max
Page of the Order
"Theough si ambulavero in valle umbrae mortis, non timebo mala,..."

David

  • New Forum Member
  • *
  • Posts: 11
  • New Member
Re: Chivalry and Etiquette
« Reply #28 on: 2014-05-21, 23:13:43 »
I too believe chivalry should be practised by all people. The world would be a lot better place. I was raised to have good manners and politeness(opening a door for a woman etc.) so that part comes natural to me. I do have issues that i try to work on everyday. Old habits of blaming someone before knowing the whole truth, judging certain people for things are sometimes hard to break. This code of chivalry is making me better every day. I try to think before i say things and like many others have said treat people the way u want to be treated.

Aiden of Oreland

  • Squire of the Order
  • Forum Acolyte
  • ***
  • Posts: 926
  • Let faith be my shield and let joy be my steed
Re: Chivalry and Etiquette
« Reply #29 on: 2014-05-22, 03:48:14 »
I too believe chivalry should be practised by all people. The world would be a lot better place. I was raised to have good manners and politeness(opening a door for a woman etc.) so that part comes natural to me. I do have issues that i try to work on everyday. Old habits of blaming someone before knowing the whole truth, judging certain people for things are sometimes hard to break. This code of chivalry is making me better every day. I try to think before i say things and like many others have said treat people the way u want to be treated.

As with all of us, we all hope to always improve our moral standing and our habits. No matter what it is. Chivalry is the guideline and the force to push us to become a better person, in thy home or out of it. As humans we are not perfect, nor are we ever expected to be. As for chivalry in our modern world beyond the forum and order, it is quite a sad sight. I had planned to open a club in my school in order to help people bring this, what is now considered by our modern world an old custom, into their lives. To no surprise I could not pass this club for there was no teacher to sponsor it either willingly or capable. That said, I am sure that over time this will catch on. As long as people like you continue to follow the code and pass it on.
-"I raise not the sword, but the shield."-Aiden Max