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Author Topic: My kingdom for a realistic game!  (Read 4478 times)

Sir Brian

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My kingdom for a realistic game!
« on: 2012-10-28, 13:36:57 »
I was playing CMW online the other day and took notice of a chat going on in game. The first player asked the general question as to why he could only hold his block for a short time when another player replied with: "Well you can't expect to hold 30 lbs up for long". I had to interject at that point and replied that NO medieval weapon was ever 30 lbs. 5 - 8 lbs at most. The player under the misconception that weapons and shields weighed 30 lbs. then came back with "Not spears, they are heavy". Which I replied with: "They were even less!".  ::)

That dialog and the way games of the medieval genre have been and are still being developed convinces me that despite those of us in the know, the heinous and ignorant misconceptions concerning medieval arms and armor fostered during the Victorian era is still prominent. I lament that even the very few conscientious game designers that take the time and effort to research the historical accuracy of the 'Look' of the armor and weapons still do not capture the true 'feel' and accurate function ability of wearing armor. It would be nice if just for ONCE a game developer would watch some decent live steel combat and see the range of motion, speed and agility many fighters possess, then perhaps those moronic notions that swords weigh 30 lbs and armored knights needed to be craned onto their mounts will thankful go the way of the 'Earth is Flat' heretics!  ;)
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Lord Dane

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Re: My kingdom for a realistic game!
« Reply #1 on: 2012-10-28, 16:13:05 »
For the record, Sir Brian... they were not heretics...they all mostly believed in faith/religion but they were uneducated, ignorant, illiterate, and/or frightened to challenge the World's view as seen through the eyes of the Church. Commonly known as 'stupid' & 'cowards'. Wake up Flat-worlders!! :)
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SirNathanQ

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Re: My kingdom for a realistic game!
« Reply #2 on: 2012-10-28, 21:27:54 »
Actually, the fact that the world was round was general knowledge at the time. The greeks first discovered it, and so did anyone who ever noticed the existence of a horizon. This knowledge would be taken for granted, especially by educated Churchmen of the period. Actually, anyone going about spreading a view such as the world being flat would be the one accused of being a heretic.

But really, the misconceptions (and the 1st person gameplay with a terrible sense of reach) in CMW are simply killing the game for me  :P
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Sir Wolf

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Re: My kingdom for a realistic game!
« Reply #3 on: 2012-10-28, 22:17:58 »


NNNNNNNNNNNEEEEEEERRRRRRRRRRRRDDDDDDSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS

Silvanus

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Re: My kingdom for a realistic game!
« Reply #4 on: 2012-10-29, 00:51:57 »
Lunacy! Next you'll all be asserting that the earth revolves around the Sun! Do not make me summon the Holy Inquisition.
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Sir James A

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Re: My kingdom for a realistic game!
« Reply #5 on: 2012-10-29, 15:50:53 »
Sir Brian, I know exactly how you feel. It's bugged me for a long, long time.

Sadly, I think if there *were* a game to come out that closely reflected actual historical combat, the majority of players would just assume it's fantasy - strangely enough - while watching katanas cut through tanks and believing katanas are magic. There would be a small margin of people who would actually know what the game really is recreating and want - and that's a tough market to justify when talking about financing, production, sales, etc.

Seems like part of the mentality with the Victorian era myths and misconceptions prevails since most people think "Victorians were centuries more advanced than medieval people, so obviously what they say is right". It's hard to convince somebody that people of a "more advanced age" completely misunderstood history and are the cause of modern day civilization having falsehoods shoved down their throat constantly.

Something touched on in a presentation by one of the museum curators is that the misconception of extreme weight can actually come from enthusiastic children. Take our Fort Belvoir demo - the kids had a great time, but aside from Sir Edward's buckler, think of how heavy our weapons, shield, and pieces of armor were to the kids picking them up - so they'll be thrilled from the experience, but go home thinking "man, that sword was heavy. must have been 15 or 20 pounds!". Of course, it's relative to their smaller bodies and muscles - and we know that - but to them, it's "really heavy". And when they grow up, if they don't get their hands on proper weapons and armor again, they probably remember that experience as a child.

Another is that a single example sometimes is "proof" for people. There really are historical swords weighting 15+ pounds; but they were "bearing" swords, for parade use and/or the same use as over-sized cod-pieces. They were never built for combat, probably never saw combat, but they exist, and they're swords, so therefore ... some people make the leap of assumption because they don't know about bearing swords (and really, who does? :)). It's another hurdle to cross, though.

When I get the last of the tweaks done with my harness, and/or I get the rest of my commission from Allan that's made to my size (the stuff I'm wearing wasn't - I got it used / not made for me), I'll have more range of mobility, and if I can get myself into better physical shape, *and* if we're invited back to VARF (or wherever!), I hope to dispel a few of the basic armor myths that are so prevalent. Possibly finding a pommel horse from somewhere that I can use to "vault" onto, and show that I can get up off the ground, etc. Not a lot, considering time and energy constraints, but stuff I can't do with a breastplate that's too wide and prevents me crossing my arms. And no, I don't think cartwheels will make the list at this point. :D

On a strictly gaming side of things, I think the short blocking time is to keep the action more fast-paced. Probably a lot more of a "game pace" design, rather than "shields were too heavy to hold up for long". And, as demonstrated, even if the game developers knew shields could be held up much longer, but were told "make it more fast-paced and action-y", the people playing the game are still left to their own (often lacking) education on the subject matter. :(
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Sir William

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Re: My kingdom for a realistic game!
« Reply #6 on: 2012-11-02, 17:27:06 »
As with Hollywood, don't look to games for historical accuracy- the crowds they're catering to simply do not care, with the obvious small percentage of gamers like us.  They don't stand to make any more money if they actually paid their researchers to shoot for historical accuracy- it would be value added for us as we live and breathe it (or in my case, try to) but we are a very small percentage of the gaming community; not worth the effort in short as the bottom line always dictates what goes in and what doesn't.

"Make it look good" is about as good as it gets.
« Last Edit: 2012-11-02, 17:28:00 by Sir William »
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