"Waste no more time arguing about what a good man should be. Be one."
                -- Marcus Aurelius

Author Topic: Goign Medieval on H2  (Read 13376 times)

Ian

  • Knight of the Order
  • Forum Veteran
  • ****
  • Posts: 2,994
Re: Goign Medieval on H2
« Reply #15 on: 2012-03-13, 21:58:38 »
This is kind of in the spirit of Going Medieval so I figured I'd put this here instead of a new thread.  If anyone of you have been following the Arrows v Armour or Warbow Effectiveness threads on MyArmoury you'll see a lot of going back and forth with some heavy hitters weighing in on the subject.  Basically it's a lot of arguing one way or the other as to whether or not warbows could reliably defeat plate armor (i.e. penetrate the plate). 

I noticed in 'Going Medieval,' Mike Loades took a kind of middle-ground position and demonstrated through some impact force testing that the blunt force trauma from an arrow impacting armor, regardless of whether or not it penetrates, could disable or at least stun the man wearing the harness.  I found this quite interesting, and particularly so that in his test the energy transferred to the force meter was roughly equivalent to that of a .44 magnum bullet.  When you think about this, it makes sense, as a bullet travels a lot faster than the fastest arrow, but the force is impacting through a much larger surface area.  An arrow's tip, be it a compact broadhead or bodkin is tiny compared to the tip of a bullet, so comparable forces can be achieved at much lower velocities, since pressure = force / area.  So it would follow that being hit by an arrow in plate armor would be much like getting shot with a bullet proof vest on.  Yeah, the bullet won't penetrate, but a lot of people suffer broken ribs, serious bruising, and potentially incapacitation or even death if your particularly unlucky.

Anyway, I decided to try to contact Mike Loades' people directly and see if they could point me to the data they got from that experiment.  I emailed them through his website yesterday.  Today I came home from work and was pleasantly surprised and excited to find a personal email response from Mike Loades himself!  He said he's actually pursuing this particular area of interest in greater depth and he plans to publish results based on it soon, so he didn't give me any actual data, but I thought it was pretty darn cool that he took the time to email me back and let me know about his work.

Here's a copy of the email:
Quote
Ian

Thanks for your e-mail and kind comments.

I have plans to write up more of what we did for the longbow tests in Going Medieval, so you will forgive me if I don't share information until after i've published. I share your belief about the effectiveness of good quality armour and that is why i set up these tests to begin to explore the blunt trauma effects of massed archers. I think modern studies have been too obsessed with notions of penetration and have been missing this point about the effects of repeated blunt trauma from arrow strikes. It not only makes sense of massed archers, it also makes sense of short range shooting and heavy bows.

best wishes

mike

Anyway, I thought you guys might get a kick out of that!  I've always been a fan of Mike's and he just went up a few notches in my book for being accessible to fans like me! 
My YouTube Channel - Knyght Errant
My Pinterest

Qui desiderat pacem, praeparet bellum

Sir Edward

  • Forum Admin
  • Commander of the Order
  • Forum Veteran
  • *****
  • Posts: 9,340
  • Verum et Honorem.
    • ed.toton.org
Re: Goign Medieval on H2
« Reply #16 on: 2012-03-13, 23:06:16 »
Hey, that's really awesome! I look forward to seeing what he comes up with. He seems like a pretty decent guy, and his enthusiasm for all things medieval is quite apparent.

Oh, and don't forget, the arrows might also carry more mass than the .44 projectile. I'd love to see some data on this as well.

Pressure = force / area... but also, force = mass * acceleration. Mass is an important part of the equation.
« Last Edit: 2012-03-13, 23:07:48 by Sir Edward »
Sir Ed T. Toton III
Knight Commander, Order of the Marshal

( Personal Site | My Facebook )

Sir James A

  • Weapons & Armor addict
  • Knight of the Order
  • Forum Veteran
  • ****
  • Posts: 6,043
Re: Goign Medieval on H2
« Reply #17 on: 2012-03-13, 23:41:14 »
Awesome! I saw Black Swan posted that History/H2 didn't get the "response they wanted" from the show, and are going to re-air it in April and give it another shot. I'm hopeful they'll pick it up as a series. Mike Loades is one of my favorite presenters.
Knight, Order of the Marshal
Sable, a chevron between three lions statant Argent

Sir Brian

  • Knight of the Order
  • Forum Veteran
  • ****
  • Posts: 4,735
  • Felix uxor beatam vitam - Happy Wife Happy Life
    • Order of the Marshal
Re: Goign Medieval on H2
« Reply #18 on: 2012-03-14, 07:41:34 »
That is really awesome! I missed that show and look forward to the re-airing of it. I hope it does better the second go around! :)
"Chivalry our Strength, Brotherhood our sword"
Vert, on a Chief wavy Argent a Rose Sable,
a Gryphon Segreant Or

[img width=100 height=100]
<a href="http://s221.photobucket.com/user/Tah908/media/LP_Medals_zpsq7zzdvve.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i221.photobucket.

Sir Wolf

  • He Who is Not to be Named
  • Knight of the Order
  • Forum Veteran
  • ****
  • Posts: 5,389
  • i have too many hats
    • man e faces
Re: Goign Medieval on H2
« Reply #19 on: 2012-03-14, 11:31:21 »
:)

Sir Edward

  • Forum Admin
  • Commander of the Order
  • Forum Veteran
  • *****
  • Posts: 9,340
  • Verum et Honorem.
    • ed.toton.org
Re: Goign Medieval on H2
« Reply #20 on: 2012-03-14, 14:02:09 »
If they make a good announcement on facebook, I'll probably make a point of sharing it, and try to get people to watch. It was well done. I'd like to see it succeed.
Sir Ed T. Toton III
Knight Commander, Order of the Marshal

( Personal Site | My Facebook )