"I fear not the man who has practiced ten thousand kicks once. But I fear the man who has practiced one kick ten thousand times."
                -- Bruce Lee

Author Topic: Plate armor  (Read 18781 times)

Leganoth

  • Forum Follower
  • ***
  • Posts: 343
Plate armor
« on: 2012-02-10, 08:12:19 »
Well guys, I have been looking at illusion armoring, i think i am going to get a 14th century set. I was planning on getting the arms and legs so might as well get the chest too! Only thing is, my helmets. I dont think a crusaders great helm would fit the 14th century set, BUT my pig faced helmet WOULD fit the period but, it has brass trim and the plate does not.

Ian

  • Knight of the Order
  • Forum Veteran
  • ****
  • Posts: 2,994
Re: Plate armor
« Reply #1 on: 2012-02-10, 11:41:25 »
It would not be incorrect to have brass trim on only certain parts of your kit. Just be wary, if you read any reviews on illusion, the general consensus is they do good work, but be prepared for long delays and minimal communication. From what I've read, we're talking well over a year to see anything completed if they have to build it for you.

14th century is a century of immense change in armor. If you're looking to be in plate arms and legs, you're looking at the mid to late 14th century.  The pig faced bascinet fits within the later part of the 14th century. You can also wear a klappvisor bascinet slightly earlier in the century, which is also found to be worn and favored by German knights much later in the century when it went out of style in other parts of Europe. You're correct that a crusader era helm would be out of place for a plate wearing knight of the 14th century. If you wanted to go early 14th century, you would be primarily maille, with some plate bits, like elbow and knee cops, and then you might be able to get away with the crusader style helm, depending on what specific style we're talking about.

Chest protection varies too. By the mid 14th century, a coat of plates would be common, an actual 14th century globose breastplate is more common for late 14th century, and a corrazzina, which is similar to a 15th c brigandine may also be seen in the late 14th.  So you have some options on the chest.

For almost all of the 14th century, full plate included, you're looking at a full maille haubergeon underneath everything if authenticity is important to you.  Voiders and maille faulds do not reveal themselves until the 15th century.

I can go on and on as this is my time period of interest so, let me know if you need any info.

My kit's style is late 14th century England. There are big stylistic differences between different parts of Europe, so ideally narrowing down a region is helpful.
My YouTube Channel - Knyght Errant
My Pinterest

Qui desiderat pacem, praeparet bellum

Sir William

  • Cogito ergo sum
  • Knight of the Order
  • Forum Veteran
  • ****
  • Posts: 7,154
Re: Plate armor
« Reply #2 on: 2012-02-10, 14:24:49 »
Wait, a brigandine is 15th C?
The Black Knight, Order of the Marshal
'Per Pale Azure and Sable, a Chevron counterchanged fimbriated argent.' 
“Pride makes a man, it drives him, it is the shield wall around his reputation.  Men die, but reputation does not.â€

Sir Wolf

  • He Who is Not to be Named
  • Knight of the Order
  • Forum Veteran
  • ****
  • Posts: 5,389
  • i have too many hats
    • man e faces
Re: Plate armor
« Reply #3 on: 2012-02-10, 14:25:57 »
true Brigs are a 15thc item. they have larger plates than the later 16thc versions.

Sir William

  • Cogito ergo sum
  • Knight of the Order
  • Forum Veteran
  • ****
  • Posts: 7,154
Re: Plate armor
« Reply #4 on: 2012-02-10, 15:10:26 »
So, say a 'Clan Andrews' style brig is 16th C?  Well...that takes the wind right outta my sails it does.
The Black Knight, Order of the Marshal
'Per Pale Azure and Sable, a Chevron counterchanged fimbriated argent.' 
“Pride makes a man, it drives him, it is the shield wall around his reputation.  Men die, but reputation does not.â€

Sir Edward

  • Forum Admin
  • Commander of the Order
  • Forum Veteran
  • *****
  • Posts: 9,340
  • Verum et Honorem.
    • ed.toton.org
Re: Plate armor
« Reply #5 on: 2012-02-10, 16:06:23 »

Yeah, you're looking at coats of plates in the earlier periods. Brigs are pretty late.
Sir Ed T. Toton III
Knight Commander, Order of the Marshal

( Personal Site | My Facebook )

Sir William

  • Cogito ergo sum
  • Knight of the Order
  • Forum Veteran
  • ****
  • Posts: 7,154
Re: Plate armor
« Reply #6 on: 2012-02-10, 16:18:08 »
Like the one I'm selling...ugh.  lol
The Black Knight, Order of the Marshal
'Per Pale Azure and Sable, a Chevron counterchanged fimbriated argent.' 
“Pride makes a man, it drives him, it is the shield wall around his reputation.  Men die, but reputation does not.â€

Sir Edward

  • Forum Admin
  • Commander of the Order
  • Forum Veteran
  • *****
  • Posts: 9,340
  • Verum et Honorem.
    • ed.toton.org
Re: Plate armor
« Reply #7 on: 2012-02-10, 16:26:36 »

Well, it also depends on what part of the period. The coat of plates you're selling is appropriate for mid-14th. Earlier than that, and the plates were sewn into larger coats, like surcoats.
Sir Ed T. Toton III
Knight Commander, Order of the Marshal

( Personal Site | My Facebook )

Sir William

  • Cogito ergo sum
  • Knight of the Order
  • Forum Veteran
  • ****
  • Posts: 7,154
Re: Plate armor
« Reply #8 on: 2012-02-10, 16:45:48 »
You know, Lloyd Clark mentioned something about making an armoured surcoat, which I thought sounded way cool.  I really wanted a brig though, I just like the look of them.  I think I might go that route anyway...I know it isn't anachronistic to the 14th C but since I'm not fighting and I'm not in the SCA, I can get away with it.  The average lay person's not going to know the difference and it is they who are our main audience currently.

I know that's bad isn't it.  lol
The Black Knight, Order of the Marshal
'Per Pale Azure and Sable, a Chevron counterchanged fimbriated argent.' 
“Pride makes a man, it drives him, it is the shield wall around his reputation.  Men die, but reputation does not.â€

Sir Wolf

  • He Who is Not to be Named
  • Knight of the Order
  • Forum Veteran
  • ****
  • Posts: 5,389
  • i have too many hats
    • man e faces
Re: Plate armor
« Reply #9 on: 2012-02-10, 17:15:56 »
illusion does make nice stuff, just wait time sometimes takes a while.

you would be ok with a brass edged helmet and not anything else.

as far the other topic, think of it this way. coats of plates = correnzas(sp) = brigs = etc. just like aketons = gambesons = jacks = jack of plates etc. there all different animals, some closer cousins to some than others. there is so much mix n match its crazy during the 14thc.

Leganoth

  • Forum Follower
  • ***
  • Posts: 343
Re: Plate armor
« Reply #10 on: 2012-02-10, 20:08:44 »
Hmm I see, would buying from here be a good idea or is there anywhere else? Would it be cheaper to buy everything aside from the helmet in a pack or separately? And how much would that probably cost because dont you have to pay for strapping etc?

Ian

  • Knight of the Order
  • Forum Veteran
  • ****
  • Posts: 2,994
Re: Plate armor
« Reply #11 on: 2012-02-10, 23:46:34 »
Short of full on custom work, Anshelm Arms does some great 14th century armor, but it's not cheap.  A less expensive but less accurate alternative would be Mad Matt, or a lot of the guys who regularly frequent the Armour Archive.  Everyone I see order from Illusion generally waits YEARS to get their stuff if they order a full suit.

You can get away with less parts if you tell me specifically what part of the 14th century you're after.  If you're in to the pig-faced bascinet, you would be looking at LATE 14th century, England, France, or Italy.  If you like Italy, you can skip spaulders altogether, wear 3/4 plate arms, and drape your maille over the tops of the rerebrace.  If you like English style, we're talking about full articulated arms and integrated spaulders.  France is not too dissimilar from England.  If you want to make a good kit, I recommend you look at some effigies from your time period first, put in the time doing the research, narrow down your focus and then start worrying about armorers.  And don't forget, a good kit is 100% dependent on good arming clothes!  If you want to do it right, take the time, it's worth it, and cheaper in the long run.
My YouTube Channel - Knyght Errant
My Pinterest

Qui desiderat pacem, praeparet bellum

SirNathanQ

  • Knight of the Order
  • Forum Acolyte
  • ****
  • Posts: 1,742
  • "Nobiscum Deus" "Libertas ad omnes civitates"
Re: Plate armor
« Reply #12 on: 2012-02-11, 03:47:53 »
Those late 14th cent kits are some of the hardest to truly do well. You need these very specific plate parts, (Almost a full suit) and then you need to have a nicely tailored haubergeon underneath.

"The maximum use of force is in no way incompatible with the simultaneous use of the intellect." -Carl Von Clausewitz
"He is truly a fearless knight and secure on every side, for his soul is protected by the armor of faith just as his body is protected by armor of steel." -Saint Bernard of Clairvoux

Allan Senefelder

  • Forum Follower
  • ***
  • Posts: 228
Re: Plate armor
« Reply #13 on: 2012-02-11, 16:57:42 »
Quote
A less expensive but less accurate alternative would be Mad Matt,

I believe Matt's re-emergence is as a strictly custom project armourer so i'm not sure how much cheaper he's going to be.

Sir Brian

  • Knight of the Order
  • Forum Veteran
  • ****
  • Posts: 4,735
  • Felix uxor beatam vitam - Happy Wife Happy Life
    • Order of the Marshal
Re: Plate armor
« Reply #14 on: 2012-02-11, 17:15:22 »
Then again...

If I was going to go for a custom job I would be pestering this absolutely magnificent armorer!  ;)
http://modernchivalry.org/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=25
"Chivalry our Strength, Brotherhood our sword"
Vert, on a Chief wavy Argent a Rose Sable,
a Gryphon Segreant Or

[img width=100 height=100]
<a href="http://s221.photobucket.com/user/Tah908/media/LP_Medals_zpsq7zzdvve.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i221.photobucket.