What is this cut? / Was ist dieser Schnitt?

[Sir Brian]

I’m not really sure how to explain my question and I hope Sir Edward will lend his thoughts on how to best relate it to the study of the longsword. Sir Edward and I were discussing some of the recent lessons we had each learned at our respective schools and the peculiar coincidence that both of our instructors had chosen to have a lesson pertaining to the use of the zwerchau and defending against it, especially whenever a second zwerchau is thrown immediately after the first was parried with a zornhau.

I had expressed to Ed how my class was a bit troubled at how difficult it was to defend against the double-zwerch (for lack of the knowledge for the proper terminology). Sir Edward shared with me the lesson imparted in his class of defeating it with a zornhau followed up with a slope step and snit or press against the hands while your opponent was in the midst of throwing the second zwerchau. I was very impressed with that solution and as we discussed it and practiced it with a couple of hollow earth wasters (thanks hollow earth for the gracious loaners!) we noted how easy it was to follow up the initial zornhau with a back-cut (almost a krumphau) while taking another slope step which defeats the second zwerchau and gives you the opponents entire head and flank open for your follow up attack.

I shared this at Wednesday’s MASHS class and we all liked the feel and quick results it brings. Larry was especially effective with it as it coincides well with his fluidly mobile style of fighting. 

Now to my question: Is there anything in any of the various codex’s out there that gives a name to that particular kind of back-cut/krumphau? 

[Sir Edward]

That's a good question. We take the technique to the point of doing the schnitt, and then it becomes "do what you want". I don't know whether or not there's a name for snapping back with the back edge to the person's neck or face as an immediate follow-up to that.

But that schnitt to the hands is pretty cool, isn't it? You can imagine that with sharps, you'd get the other guy just trying to pull back away from the pain of the sharp edge, and you can quickly control what his hands do at that point.

[Sir Brian]

That's a good question. We take the technique to the point of doing the schnitt, and then it becomes "do what you want". I don't know whether or not there's a name for snapping back with the back edge to the person's neck or face as an immediate follow-up to that.

Yes that's what you and I experimented with on Saturday but during the week and on Wednesday we worked with it a bit more and immediately after the attacker throwing the zwerchau disengages from the bind to throw the second zwerchau you take a slope step and do the back-cut/krumphau knocking down the second incoming zwerchau THEN you follow up with either a scheitelhau or do an unterhau or mittlehau to the exposed right flank. So it is actually three tempos...
Cut/pace, pace/back-cut, cut...an additional pace could be done but Larry pointed out that it wouldn't really be necessary.
 

But that schnitt to the hands is pretty cool, isn't it? You can imagine that with sharps, you'd get the other guy just trying to pull back away from the pain of the sharp edge, and you can quickly control what his hands do at that point.

I love any move that calls for a schnitt! 

[Das Bill]

Brian, you're describing the duplieren counter to this move. If you read any of the verses, such as von Danzig, it will describe more or less this same action. Because of this, one should never just press the hands and stay still, but should instead immediately withdraw with more final attacks. Also, you want to slice from below the hands to push them somewhat up first and then come downwards onto them, which will make it more difficult for the opponent to pull of the duplieren.

[Sir Brian]

Hey thanks for your input Bill! I was hoping you’d be able to elaborate more on this! It’s curious that Ed and I worked a little more last weekend at MDRF with the wasters and explored some of the possible counters to the counters. Suffice to say that when one can react appropriately to all possible scenarios then you are well on your way to being a true swordsman…which means for me I have a very long road to travel yet!