GDFB riveted stainless steel mail

[Sir Edward]

I figured I'd post a mini-review. What I have is the AB3084 (code 6), 48" chest, 17ga flat-ring dome-riveted stainless haugergeon.

I'm pretty pleased with this armor. The rings are strong, and the weight is manageable at 18 pounds. It ships with a black coating that immediately starts flaking off. Already my mail, after a test fitting and wearing it to faire once, is sort of a dark grey in color now. It's continuing to flake. So I think this coating was meant as a sealant after manufacturing, rather than packing it in grease. This means it's wearable right away without massive clean-up, but you may be vacuuming up the black flakes for a while if you try it on indoors.

The chest-size measurement is optimistic. I have a 41" chest (measured over a thin shirt). The 48"/50" size they report doesn't give me any real extra room. If I had planned to wear a thick gambeson under this, I'd have needed their 60" model.

As I've noted elsewhere, it's more difficult to get in and out of than my aluminum mail, which is butted round wire links. The reasons are fairly simple:

• The flat links have less room to move relative to each other since the flat wire is wider within the plane of the link, and also the links are a slightly smaller diameter anyway.
• Occasionally a rivet catches the fabric. It's not a big problem, but one or two links are just a little sharp and will catch.
• The thin edges of the links, combined with having rivets, simply provides more overall friction compared to smooth round wire.
• It's a tighter fit with a smaller neck opening to get my head through.

Things they did right:

• The neck and shoulder area is shaped pretty well, so it doesn't put all of the weight on any one spot. It's really just a straight horizontal pattern across the top, but often that's better than some of the odd shaping I've seen before.
• The back sheet is wider than the front sheet. This is historically correct and aids in mobility. It results in the arm holes being slightly angled forward, which is needed.

Things they neglected:

• As is often the case with most off-the-rack armor, they didn't taper the sleeves. I realize you can't plan for all arm sizes or how much padding people will use. But it's just straight tubes, so you can still get that "wings of mail" thing going on that I really hate.
• They didn't widen the base at all. It was really difficult to sit down with the armor on, and it was also making it additionally difficult to get in and out of the armor as a result. I added expansion triangles with completely different links (14ga galvanized steel round-wire butt links) on the sides at the base. The results are night and day. I can sit comfortably, and go into wide stances, and it helped enormously in getting the armor on and off.
• Technically the armpits could have some more expansion, since it will pull taught when you get your upper arm above horizontal. But for most of the motion you need, it won't pull on the body much, if at all. It's when you need to do high-guards in combat that you may notice this. But the way they put it together is normal for off-the-rack armor.

[Sir William]

Still, it sounds like they're improving the way they make these and that is reassuring.  They could still taper the sleeves a bit, I would think...as you say, those flapping wings of maille are NO FUN at all.  I've often wondered about their sizing as well...I mean, I know as a country we tend towards obesity but not ALL of us do...so I've been slow to consider these because having a 40" chest means it'd be way oversized on me, or so I thought.

That review is done in a format I think we should adopt...too often a lot of emphasis is placed on a scoring system which may or may not really convey the positive (and negative) qualities of a given product.  Nicely done, Sir Edward.

I hope that this sparks off a number of reviews on swords and armor...not only are they fun to read but they are (I hope) informative and can help others when making decisions about such things...and where to get them.  I know the general rule is whatever it may cost, check KoA first...is that what you did, Sir Edward?

[Sir Edward]

I've often wondered about their sizing as well...I mean, I know as a country we tend towards obesity but not ALL of us do...so I've been slow to consider these because having a 40" chest means it'd be way oversized on me, or so I thought.

I think you have to go by jacket size rather than actual measurement with a tape measure. I tend to wear a size 44 jacket, and the rule of thumb with most mail is to leave an extra 4", so that adds up to 48". But if I start from the tape measure, I'd have expected a lot more room in the armor.

I hope that this sparks off a number of reviews on swords and armor...not only are they fun to read but they are (I hope) informative and can help others when making decisions about such things...and where to get them.  I know the general rule is whatever it may cost, check KoA first...is that what you did, Sir Edward?

KOA is remarkably close to wholesale on a lot of their offerings. Their prices tend to be excellent. I got it just a hair cheaper (I'll explain later), but these days I usually do just go to KOA.

Here's the KOA page for the one I got:
(mail,haubergeon)
http://kultofathena.com/product.asp?item=AB3084&name=Chain+Mail+Haubegen+-+Dome+Riveted+-+Flattened+ring+-+Stainless+Steel+48%27%27+Chest

[Sir Ulrich]

Glad to know what quality the GDFB maille is, guess I made the right decision for going for Icefalcon, I kinda NEED tapering sleeves because my arms are quite thin. I haven't a clue how to make things taper with maille. The price is decent though, so I'm gonna pick up a coif from them in the future. Looks like they're big for a reason though considering the chest size is 48 while my own chest size is 34 I believe.

[Sir Patrick]

I'm torn between these two:

http://www.kultofathena.com/product.asp?item=AB2542&name=Chain+Mail+Hauberk+%2D+Dome+Riveted+%2D+Aluminum+60%27%27+Chest
http://www.kultofathena.com/product.asp?item=AB2528&name=Chain+Mail+Hauberk+%2D+Wedge+Riveted%2DSolid+Ring+%2D+Flattened+ring+%2D+Mild+Steel+60%27%27+Chest

Does anyone have any experience with GDBF aluminum maille?  I've heard aluminum rings in maille from other manufacturers can stretch and break around the shoulders from the weight of the shirt.  How's GDBF hold up?  How does it look in real life?  I don't want something that looks like its from a fantasy movie on the SciFi network!  Weight is really the only thing keeping me from going with steel.  Any thoughts?

[SirNathanQ]

Well if you can't stand the wieght, then aluminum is your only option really 

BTW, Sir Ed, could we have another child board for this section for reviews?

[Sir Edward]

All aluminum is susceptible to stretching and tearing, especially if you're clamping other armor over it. I think folks here have mostly used the Thinkgeek aluminum, which is very cost effective, but it's also some of the softer stuff out there. I haven't had a chance to work with the GDFB versions yet.

My aluminum is butted stuff that I made from electric fence wire, in 14ga. I put some steel links in key places (the inside of the crotch splits, and the entire neck opening), and it holds up really well.

[Sir Edward]

Well if you can't stand the wieght, then aluminum is your only option really 

BTW, Sir Ed, could we have another child board for this section for reviews?

Not a bad idea.

[Ian]

I'm torn between these two:

http://www.kultofathena.com/product.asp?item=AB2542&name=Chain+Mail+Hauberk+%2D+Dome+Riveted+%2D+Aluminum+60%27%27+Chest
http://www.kultofathena.com/product.asp?item=AB2528&name=Chain+Mail+Hauberk+%2D+Wedge+Riveted%2DSolid+Ring+%2D+Flattened+ring+%2D+Mild+Steel+60%27%27+Chest

Does anyone have any experience with GDBF aluminum maille?  I've heard aluminum rings in maille from other manufacturers can stretch and break around the shoulders from the weight of the shirt.  How's GDBF hold up?  How does it look in real life?  I don't want something that looks like its from a fantasy movie on the SciFi network!  Weight is really the only thing keeping me from going with steel.  Any thoughts?

I've got an icefalcon aluminum riveted.  To be honest, the weight is fantastic, the look is horrid.  It's bright silver and super shiny.  It doesn't look right at all, but it feels great!  It's also easy to break and lose rings.  The steel is heavy, but looks so much better.  Titanium will give the look of steel and the weight of aluminum but it's outrageously expensive.

[Sir Patrick]

I think I'll stick with steel.  I think there's only a five pound difference between the shirts anyway, and I'd much rather have something that won't break and looks more accurate.  Would love to go with Icefalcon, but with as little as I get to armour up throughout the year (not as big a Renfaire scene out here as a lot of you guys enjoy), I just can't justify the cost difference.

[Sir Ulrich]

I stay with steel because it sorta tarnishes to this blackish grey color and I like that. Just dont want it turning all rusty, a rust spot here and there wont bug me though. Main reason I went with Icefalcon maille is cause it's a smaller size and wont have excessive weight on my skinny frame. The sleeves are also longer and probably easier to tailor. Icefalcon stainless is the way to go though if you want minimum maintenance and accurate looks with the whole black coating.

[Sir James A]

Seconded on a review section.

I'd also suggest going with the steel mail. Dark is not always period and there are period accounts of shiny armor.

[Thorsteinn]

Is anyone edging their maille in leather? Adding ties over key locations? Is it as good as advertised?

[Sir Edward]

I'd also suggest going with the steel mail. Dark is not always period and there are period accounts of shiny armor.

Stainless steel is another option that Icefalcon has. It's more expensive, but not nearly as bad as titanium. You get all the weight (and the right look) of steel, but it's much more rust resistant. I have stainless chausses from Icefalcon, and they've been maintenance-free so far.

[SirNathanQ]

I've got a GDFB hauberk, riveted, flat ring, steel.
The weight isn't a burden at all. At less than 20 lbs, I can run around with the thing on for very long periods of time. The tailoring jobs I did were to add a split (period accurate for a hauberk) and to taper the sleeves. Hard, time consuming, but extremely rewarding.

Acutally, rust hasn't been a problem at all. Only time was when I got some sweat on it. Since then, I've worn it multiple times and no maintenace needed. Definatly worth the $400 IMO