ModernChivalry.org
Main => The Armoury => Topic started by: Ian on 2014-03-14, 18:36:26
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So there's a method to my madness... what good is a new pair of authentic 14th century turnshoes if you're not going to accessorize them??
These came yesterday :)
(http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3818/13152089214_4ed93b7dac_c.jpg)
(http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7401/13151931493_d7bd5dba78_c.jpg)
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Those look rather cool, prolly could double as a weapon with how pointed the toes are, a kick with that would not feel good at all. Do the turnshoes fit better than your viking leathercraft shoes did?
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Sweet, Ian! Those are some sexy sabatons there.
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nice, inside pics?
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Awesome! :)
I'd be curious though about the wear and tear they would have upon your spur straps. :-\
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Very cool!
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Wow! 8)
Those are beautiful.
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All that hard work to make some really nice shoes and you don't even get to see them. Then again, the sabatons are really awesome. Congrats!
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Awesome man!! Got to keep those new turn shoes protected ;)
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Very nice! And very daring to make the turn shoes without the sabatons, and the sabatons before the turn shoes. Opposite of the normal flow, and you still pulled it off flawlessly.
How well do they stay closed without a strap to keep the heel plate in place?
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How well do they stay closed without a strap to keep the heel plate in place?
The heels pin closed with a swiveling toggle, so they are pretty securely kept in place. I much prefer this to the strapped design. They're so much easier to put on, and much neater in appearance.
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Simply, Beautiful
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Pretty cool Ian. It must be awesome working with Jeff Wasson. I really admire his work.
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How well do they stay closed without a strap to keep the heel plate in place?
The heels pin closed with a swiveling toggle, so they are pretty securely kept in place. I much prefer this to the strapped design. They're so much easier to put on, and much neater in appearance.
I was wondering about that since I saw his post on armour archive. Tiny enough it's just hidden behind the strap. Very nice.
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Wonderful! Those turned out great! You'll need to do updated pics of your entire harness at some point, now that you're getting all these nice details covered.
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BAD. ASS. Love it.
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Look great, Sir Ian!
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Sir Iran, did you find much in the way of historical reference for your heel plates? I'm preparing to have my sabs refurbished and was considering adding heel plates, but I notice that Jeff's post over on AA that sparked debate as to their historical use (from back in February!) is still going strong to this day. I'm curious about your own opinion/research.
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Good stuff there.
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Sir Iran, did you find much in the way of historical reference for your heel plates? I'm preparing to have my sabs refurbished and was considering adding heel plates, but I notice that Jeff's post over on AA that sparked debate as to their historical use (from back in February!) is still going strong to this day. I'm curious about your own opinion/research.
Sir Iran? I swear I'm an American!! :)
There's definitely some artwork that supports heel coverage on the sabaton in the late 14th / early 15th century. Unfortunately the extant pieces like the sabatons from Chartres indicate there was never a heel plate associated with that piece. But I think what they're discovering on that AA thread is that for every guy wearing sabs, there's at least one guy just wearing shoes, or maille only, or a sab with no heel. So I think what's really being shown is that there's a lot of variety in foot protection during that period in time and sabaton with heel is hardly the standard or even common, but merely an option.
Here's a tetraptych from 1400, interestingly the heel seems to have lames:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/roelipilami/2002929645/ (https://www.flickr.com/photos/roelipilami/2002929645/)
This images below also shows heel coverage on the sab:
(http://armourinart.com/media/cache/armourinart.com/original/149_large.jpg)
(http://manuscriptminiatures.com/media/cache/manuscriptminiatures.com/original/1191-5_large.jpg)
(http://manuscriptminiatures.com/media/cache/manuscriptminiatures.com/original/49-8_large.jpg)
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Sorry Sir "Iran", when I make posts from my Android it's auto-spellcheck sometimes makes dumb corrections. Usually I catch them...
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Sorry Sir "Iran", when I make posts from my Android it's auto-spellcheck sometimes makes dumb corrections. Usually I catch them...
I know I was just kidding around.
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Turns out I had evidence in a book of mine... The History of Armour 1100-1700 (http://www.amazon.com/History-Armour-1100-1700-Paul-Walker/dp/184797452X/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1402676644&sr=8-1&keywords=the+history+of+armour), by Paul F. Walker. pgs. 89 and 90. Pg 90 has a photo of an original early 15th century sabaton in the author's own collection using an integrally hinged heel plate that secures with a leather strap and buckle. There's no confusion on that piece if it's a connected heel plate, it most certainly is.
Then on page 89 is an effigy of Sir Thomas Beauchamp. On the caption the author draws attention to the edge of the plates where you can see the division between the armor and the sole of the shoe. It extends toward the heel implying the existence of a heel plate. It's hard to see in the image, but it's definitely suggestive of a heel plate. These pieces combined with the manuscript illuminations to me prove that there were certainly heel plates in the Late 14th and Early 15th centuries. If they were the norm, I don't know. But it looks like the definitely existed.
I would scan the images and display them, but it's expressly forbidden in the copyright section of the book without written permission from the publishers, which I do not have.
This is an internet photo of the same effigy - (Dated 1369) - and you might be able to make out what appears to be a heel plate (I've since emailed Saint Mary's Church in Warwick to see if they'll take a photo for me, long shot, but the worst they can say is no):
(http://www.themcs.org/armour/knights/Warwick%20-%20St%20Mary%20Thomas%20Beauchamp%201369%20and%20wife%20Katherine%20mortimer%201369%20211.JPG)
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Too bad about the pictures, I'd love to see an actual sabaton with a heel plate attached. I'll look around for that book though, I don't have that one. Thanks for the extra sources.