ModernChivalry.org
Main => The Armoury => Topic started by: Sir Brian on 2008-09-02, 15:03:16
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During a conversation with a patron @ the MDRF Saturday he suggested that I should get
a cooling vest. Something that military, firemen, police (SWAT) use to help keep cool. Doing some "googling" (is that even a word? - :-[) I came up with a few sites. The prices seem to run around $160.00 or so, but I was considering on making a "Wal-mart" version to see how it holds up.
(Yes essentially sew some flat gel ice pack pockets onto my T-Shirt) :D
Anyone else up for this mad experiment to remain a cool knight on a peasant's budget? 8)
Here are the links:
http://www.polarsoftice.com/koolmax.html (http://www.polarsoftice.com/koolmax.html)
http://www.usatechguide.org/techguide.php?vmode=1&catid=187 (http://www.usatechguide.org/techguide.php?vmode=1&catid=187)
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That's a great idea. I'm definitely curious about it. Heck, $160 isn't really all that bad. Some of those look to be under $100.
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They should probably have a safety warning about using these vests with pierced nipples! :P
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Haha, well, I guess you could always put those to use to lace the vest into place and link the mail to... *ouch* :)
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Sir Brian,
Wow! Just took a sec to check out the cool vests... ::) That could definitely be something
to look into! Especially with Gunthardt going into full production!!! ;D ;D ;D
They don't seem to have very much weight, or more importantly, displacement! Yay! :D
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Well like the knightly wet t-shirt concept, (something about that last statement STILL just
sounds wrong ;) ) I want to verify the idea before investing in any of the retail versions
...and if my homemade (i.e. Wal-mart) version works well enough I'll stick with it and save
the $90 to $160 dollars to spend on more important things...like beer! ;D
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Couldn't have said it better myself! ;)
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Please pardon the resurrection of this old thread, but since we are quickly
approaching another fair season I thought it was appropriate to update some
of the possible choices available out there for this concept...unless of course
someone has it from a competent authority that we will have a mini-iceage
this fair season, the heat will still be a major concern for us wearing armor. ;)
http://www.forestry-suppliers.com/product_pages/View_Catalog_Page.asp?ID=3471 (http://www.forestry-suppliers.com/product_pages/View_Catalog_Page.asp?ID=3471)
http://www.digitalprovisions.com/Merchant2/merchant.mv?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=RM-784&Category_Code=COOLINGVESTS&Store_Code=FARKLEMASTER
Here is a couple of links to some cheaper style cooling vests. I intend to try out
the first, cheapest versizon and work up to the more expensive version if the
cheaper vests don't suffice. These cheaper types go on the same basic principle
as the wet t-shirt concept but in theory should provide a much longer cooling potential.
I've rejected the types of cooling vests that use a type of insert that require you
to freeze since it didn't seem practical for those out of town fairs but I may
consider them for the first few weekends of the MDRF. :-\
I'll post another update after I've had a chance in the next couple of weeks to test
it out when I get my new additions to my harness. :)
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So what new goodies are ya' adding to your harness, boyo?
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Well I'm adding this new gambeson in a kelly green.
http://revival.us/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=83 (http://revival.us/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=83)
I'm also getting new rowell spurs from Quiet Press.
http://www.quietpress.com/spurs.html (http://www.quietpress.com/spurs.html)
And I'm getting some splinted cuisses which is a combined accomplishment of two excellent
armories. I’ve commissioned Nute Scott to make the cuisses using the 14th century Knee cops
that I had purchased from Allan Senefelder @ Mercenary’s Tailor, these were directly shipped
to Nute so he could attach them to the cuisses. I wanted Allan’s exquisite knee cops which
matches my elbow cops that are also from him.
http://www.merctailor.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=26&products_id=118 (http://www.merctailor.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=26&products_id=118)
(You know, I’m just trying to do my best to help support our resident forum armories! ) ;)
I’m also shopping around for another sword to use at the out of town fairs we’ll visit this season
and keep my MDRF “special” sword from getting too much potentially damaging exposure and jostling.
I had also hoped to find a better and more "true" gryphon crest for my helm but that is proving to be
extremely difficult. But after these additions I will call my harness 100%. ;D
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Well I'm adding this new gambeson in a kelly green.
http://revival.us/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=83 (http://revival.us/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=83)
Sir Brian,
Have you already purchased this yet, or are you still just thinking about it? If you haven't purchased it, I'm going to advise against it. It has a very weird cut to it, where only certain body shapes seem to fit it right. The sloping from the neck to the shoulders is weird, and the area around the armpits is very poorly shaped. For many people its restricting.
Further, they claim its a grand assiette design, but it isn't really a very good one. A proper one will allow you to lift your arms straight up without having the rest of the garment lift, which is very important under armour. This one doesn't quite allow it perfectly, though it isn't terrible in that respect, either.
I bought one last year, and hated it. I let a couple of other people try it on, who also did not like it, so I sent it back. In my opinion, unless if you're one of the lucky few whom this fits perfectly, I don't feel that this is worth the asking price.
On the other hand, I've seen a few people post on forums who've said that they happen to fit the gambeson well enough, so if you've already purchased it, then I hope you're one of those lucky few.
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Alas Sir Bill I have already purchased it. I hope it won't be such a horrible fit for me but
then again I won't have to really be using it in a practical sense in any case. I would have loved to have been able to justify the additional expense of this gambeson...http://www.revivalclothing.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=38 (http://www.revivalclothing.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=38)
...but not for only wearing under filthy aluminum mail.
The GDFB gambeson is simply too heavy for my intended use, although it would be perfect in a cooler environment! ;)
http://www.gdfbglobal.com/popup.php?pcid=297&cid=14 (http://www.gdfbglobal.com/popup.php?pcid=297&cid=14)
My primary concerns with a new gambeson is that it has to be affordable with an ease of donning and removing, lightweight and not excessively thick, and most importantly breathability...which my current gambeson is sorely lacking in. :(
I truly appreciate you sharing your experience with the gambeson and it is certainly good information to know for anyone else who is shopping for a
gambeson and comes across this forum looking for info! :)
I just hope I am more fortunate in the fitting of mine. ;)
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I'm also getting new rowell spurs from Quiet Press.
http://www.quietpress.com/spurs.html (http://www.quietpress.com/spurs.html)
Hey, nice find! I saw some similar spurs at Pennsic and regretted not buying them. I own two sets of spurs already, and basically told myself that I don't need any more... but the sad truth is that I do, because I'm not 100% happy with the ones I have. The rowel spurs I have are big and ungainly, and are a danger to myself since they're a tripping hazard. The smaller prick spurs that I have will fit over period footwear (that is, close-fitting to the foot), but not my boots (modern soles, and wider at the heel). I'll have to look these over. I'd be tempted to get them gold plated so they hold their shine without tarnishing.
Alas Sir Bill I have already purchased it. I hope it won't be such a horrible fit for me but then
again I won't have to really be using it in a practical sense in any case. I would have loved to
have been able to justify the additional expense of this gambeson...
http://www.revivalclothing.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=38 (http://www.revivalclothing.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=38)
...but not for only wearing under filthy aluminum mail.
As the owner of one of the Revival Clothing versions, I can say it truly is a nice gambeson. I use it in class. But like you, I have little desire to put filthy aluminum mail over it. I'd consider buying a second one for that purpose, but with how warm the faire seasons tend to be, I've been pretty happy with just a linen tunic, and I can get away with not having the padding since I'm not fighting in it.
The GDFB gambeson is simply too heavy for my intended use, although it would be perfect in
a cooler environment! ;)
http://www.gdfbglobal.com/popup.php?pcid=297&cid=14 (http://www.gdfbglobal.com/popup.php?pcid=297&cid=14)
Heavy is an understatement. This gambeson is armor... not something you wear with armor! :) It's built like those 30-layer jacks that are meant to be armor by themselves. The nice thing is that they made the material thin inside the elbow so you can still bend your arm.
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That's why it's nice to be married to a seamstress. Lady Constance is busy even now
constructing my padded arming doublet. Sir Brian, you could probably get by with just a lightly
padded jacket, or doublet....
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I just hope I am more fortunate in the fitting of mine. ;)
In that case, good luck Sir Brian!
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I'll have to look these over. I'd be tempted to get them gold plated so they hold their shine without tarnishing.
I did get them gold plated and strapped...which is probably why I haven't received them yet and I ordered them three weeks ago. :-\
Sir Brian, you could probably get by with just a lightly padded jacket, or doublet....
Yeah but I want to try to stay semi-authentic even though my mail gloves aren't and I have aluminum mail! ;)
In that case, good luck Sir Brian!
Thanks Bill!
I'm sure it will workout ok...it's got to fit and breath better than what I have been using! :D
http://www.maskworld.com/english/products/costumes/costume-component-parts--250/gambesons-brigantines--2501/gambeson-tiberias--MR-100586 (http://www.maskworld.com/english/products/costumes/costume-component-parts--250/gambesons-brigantines--2501/gambeson-tiberias--MR-100586)
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I'll have to look these over. I'd be tempted to get them gold plated so they hold their shine without tarnishing.
I did get them gold plated and strapped...which is probably why I haven't received them yet and I ordered them three weeks ago. :-\
UPDATE on the spurs...
They arrived yesterday and they are beautiful! Raymond did a really great job with both
the gold plating and the straps which can be easily changed when they wear out. :)
Here are some picts.
(http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd251/Tah908/My%20Kit/P3200017.jpg)
(http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd251/Tah908/My%20Kit/P3200016.jpg)
(http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd251/Tah908/My%20Kit/P3200015.jpg)
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Suh-weet!!!! :D
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UPDATE on this cooling vest:
http://www.forestry-suppliers.com/product_pages/View_Catalog_Page.asp?ID=3471 (http://www.forestry-suppliers.com/product_pages/View_Catalog_Page.asp?ID=3471)
I soaked it in cold water for 30 minutes as directed and put it on over a dry t-shirt
and wore my new gambeson for awhile. The vest has evenly spaced chambers filled
with some absorbent crystals which caused the chambers to expand but it wasn't
noticeable wearing it under the gambeson. It definately kept me cold...also damp
of course but that is actually a good thing to help keep you from dehydrating since
the dampness acts as artifically induced sweat. - (it just isn't too pleasant!) ;)
After wearing it for awhile I hung the vest up to see how long the chambers would
remain expanded and cold. It lasted a good 8 hours!
So I'll give it a try at NCRF to see how it works, but so far it looks promising and the
price is an added incentive...I also got the hardhat cooling pad to put inside my helm
which I'll try at the NCRF as well. :)
Oh and Bill, You were right about the gambeson being cut weird. I can easily tell that
it would NOT be suitible for anyone's need for actual WMA...but it does work well for
my lesser needs and besides that I love the longer sleeves.
- So I would not recommend the gambeson for anyone who is into WMA. :(
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So I'll give it a try at NCRF to see how it works, but so far it looks promising and the
price is an added incentive...I also got the hardhat cooling pad to put inside my helm
which I'll try at the NCRF as well.
An update on this endeavor...
It was mid-upper 70’s on Saturday with a nice breeze. Overall the cooling vest
and most especially the helmet cooling pad worked wonderfully! ;D
A little background information first:
Typically when I’m in the hotel getting dressed; I’ll put on almost all of my armor and
surcoat except for the gorget, vambraces, helm and elbow cops…so that by time I’m
ready to leave I have begun to sweat profusely which just continues on throughout
the day after walking around in the sunlight etc, until I achieve a mediocre condition
of heat stress that is barely tolerable and leaves me in a smelly and soggy state that
seriously makes me too self-conscious to enjoy hanging out in a restaurant after the
faire with my renfair friends. :-[
As of Saturday that was NOT the case. I barely broke a sweat by time I left the hotel
and I did not feel the least bit heat stressed all day! I didn’t even feel the need to
keep hydrated! Like I stated earlier, the helmet pad was the best! These are DEFINITELY
a must have for anyone wearing armor! ;D
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Alas, we have to remember Sir Brian, that it wasn't a typical steamer of
a hot day out like we're used to. We actually had damn nice weather to
be sporting armor. Nice breeze, ya' couldn't ask for better! Feeling the effects
of the cap though, still ought to serve you well! ;D
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UPDATE on this cooling vest:
http://www.forestry-suppliers.com/product_pages/View_Catalog_Page.asp?ID=3471 (http://www.forestry-suppliers.com/product_pages/View_Catalog_Page.asp?ID=3471)
UPDATE on the UPDATE: ???
Well I had to toss this vest into the trash because one of the straps got torn off and the fabric for one of the
chambers ripped open. All in all it worked adequately but I'd have to fail it for durability. I wore it six/seven times
and it's trashed? - Good thing it was only $20.00! :-\
I'll have to try a different one. - I don't think any cooling method will work as well as we would like but I am
convinced that some cooling scheme is better than none! The alternatives is less time in the harness -i.e. at
the faire and the added risk of succumbing to heat exhaustion/stroke. :-\
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linen under tunic, wool over tunic ;)
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Oh man, sorry to hear it failed so soon.
So far I've done OK just pouring lots of water into my under-tunic. But I haven't been wearing any padding, so the air flows through pretty well and the mail doesn't retain much heat anyway since it's aluminum. Still, by the end of the day I'm sometimes wilting. When we went to VARF as a group a few weeks ago, the last 30 minutes before we left, I was dehydrated and getting lethargic, even though I guzzled 4 or 5 waters over the afternoon. When I went back last week, I only had 2 and never got dehydrated like that. The weather makes a huge impact.
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I have never had the heat really bother me in my armor, and I wear padding under it that I made myself. I generally drink ALOT of water all day, though. I also work outside and I think being used to the heat makes a big difference as well. I know my wife has gotten heat exhaustion in her corset on some of the warmer days, but I have been just fine. She works inside though.
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You're right, I think that makes a big difference too. I work at a computer constantly, so I'm usually not well acclimated to the outdoor heat. I usually do OK with enough water, but by the end of the day I'm sometimes dragging.
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I'd have to say I was between those two ends of the scales. I do some of my work outside but not
any long durations however the AC in my car doesn't work and only the driver side window goes down
so I guess that gets me accostomed to sweating profusely. :D
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why not do an experiment. the week before you goto faire try to live without AC (house and car) or be outside as much as you can. then see how you deal at faire that Saturday... then reward yourself Sunday with AC again hehehe. I know it seems to work in the winter with me, I work a lot outside and then during hunting season when I'm outside for 10+ hours sitting I'm not as cold.
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try to live without AC (house and car) or be outside as much as you can.
Uhm... no thanks :)
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Well since my lighter wrestling jacket had to be exchanged and the correct sized one isn't here yet,
I'm forced to consider cooling options again!
So here are some pictures of my new $10.00 cooling T-shirt!
(http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd251/Tah908/WIP/Misc_005.jpg)
(http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd251/Tah908/WIP/Misc_003.jpg)
(http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd251/Tah908/WIP/Misc_004.jpg)
I'm glad I'm wearing my headphones while you read this so I can't hear you all laughing! ;)
It will hopefully keep my body core temperature cooler than that cooling vest did, which was marginally
successful. :-\
So I guess I could call it cold pockets? :D
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Hey, whatever works :)
Not a bad way to go actually. Speaking of the wrestling vests, I got an email about mine being sent not too long ago. I'm wondering if it might get here today or tomorrow.
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I just spoke to revival clothing, they don't have the color I want in the size I need in stock, so I
opted for a black one instead of waiting another 3-4 weeks for the forest green one. :-\
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Oh man, that's a shame. At least black is your other main color!
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So here are some pictures of my new $10.00 cooling T-shirt!
Ok I wore this on Saturday in the heat and brutal humidity. I tested my new cooling T-shirt by putting
on my green gambeson (the heaviest gambeson I own) along with my maille and surcoat by 9:00 AM
and the ice packs gave up (melted) by 1:00 PM so the shirt worked very well considering the extreme
circumstances I tested it under. I believe the ice packs will last a couple of hours longer with a lighter
weight gambeson which should be this coming weekend if I get my new wrestling jacket! ;)