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Main => The Armoury => Topic started by: Thorsteinn on 2012-04-10, 02:21:24

Title: Attaching an Aventail... AND Done!
Post by: Thorsteinn on 2012-04-10, 02:21:24
What is more period/better looking to attach an aventail to a helm with?

Use a strip of leather ala the Windrose Tried & True method or do a wire & metal strip attachement?

-Ivan

Me posing for roommates work assignment picture.
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash2/37285_127593487280301_100000889510293_149952_1342442_n.jpg)
Title: Re: Attaching an Aventail
Post by: Thorsteinn on 2012-04-10, 22:17:04
I'm thinking of it as mine is a Windrose hat and was designed to have an aventail.

Like this:

(http://www.windrosearmoury.com/zc/images/armour_images/H-314.jpg)
Title: Re: Attaching an Aventail
Post by: Ian on 2012-04-11, 01:32:28
All I know is 14th century bascinets were historically attached to the leather via some sort of heavy thread in the examples I've seen.  This is the Lyle Bascinet in the Royal Armouries, and you can make out the thread sewn through the leather and then the upper most rings of the aventail.

(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-M__aRm1tVAk/S2cDyITQVBI/AAAAAAAAAZE/lXxeC1Exu1M/s477/000feh12.jpeg)

(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-WgXuftZ3mj8/S2cDy_vNWHI/AAAAAAAAAZU/wq-LugSIwR4/s480/%D0%BE%D0%B4%D1%88.jpeg)
Title: Re: Attaching an Aventail
Post by: Thorsteinn on 2012-04-13, 21:05:31
Ordered a Long SS Aventail from Master Knuut today.

With shipping it came to $235.
Title: Re: Attaching an Aventail
Post by: Sir Wolf on 2012-04-13, 22:03:30
woahh  :o
Title: Re: Attaching an Aventail
Post by: Thorsteinn on 2012-04-13, 22:48:07
woahh  :o

What?  ???

Oh and I already got an email stating it's been shipped by Master Knuut (www.weldedchainmail.com (http://www.weldedchainmail.com)) How cool is that?!   :D 8)
Title: Re: Attaching an Aventail
Post by: Sir James A on 2012-04-14, 00:18:33
Congrats, I've heard nothing but good things about the welded mail ... well, only complaints I've heard is price, but when you're the only maker in a niche market and production cost is high.... :)
Title: Re: Attaching an Aventail
Post by: Thorsteinn on 2012-04-14, 11:51:42
Congrats, I've heard nothing but good things about the welded mail ... well, only complaints I've heard is price, but when you're the only maker in a niche market and production cost is high.... :)

???

Most aventails of that size cost more near as I can see. Icefalcon had a nice riveted one for $275. Sweet looking too but Knuuts have a rep for lasting a good long time with hard use.
Title: Re: Attaching an Aventail
Post by: Sir James A on 2012-04-14, 22:47:46
Congrats, I've heard nothing but good things about the welded mail ... well, only complaints I've heard is price, but when you're the only maker in a niche market and production cost is high.... :)

???

Most aventails of that size cost more near as I can see. Icefalcon had a nice riveted one for $275. Sweet looking too but Knuuts have a rep for lasting a good long time with hard use.

Did you get it new or used? There was one on AA a little while back that was something like $495 or $595, I almost fell off my chair. I'd favor a riveted over welded at similar prices, since riveted is "more" historically accurate (not that either is near perfect..), but that's personal preference too. :)
Title: Re: Attaching an Aventail
Post by: Thorsteinn on 2012-04-15, 02:53:16
New from Knuut and from Icefalcon too.

http://store.fastcommerce.com/icefalcon/stainless-aventail-large-ff80818117d2f8570117ec23cee66727-p.html (http://store.fastcommerce.com/icefalcon/stainless-aventail-large-ff80818117d2f8570117ec23cee66727-p.html)

Are you thinking of a Byrnie by chance?
Title: Re: Attaching an Aventail
Post by: Sir James A on 2012-04-15, 04:15:10
New from Knuut and from Icefalcon too.

http://store.fastcommerce.com/icefalcon/stainless-aventail-large-ff80818117d2f8570117ec23cee66727-p.html (http://store.fastcommerce.com/icefalcon/stainless-aventail-large-ff80818117d2f8570117ec23cee66727-p.html)

Are you thinking of a Byrnie by chance?

I'm drawing a complete blank on specifics. Possibly this? (http://forums.armourarchive.org/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=135984&p=2020807&hilit=knuut+welded+mail#p2020807 (http://forums.armourarchive.org/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=135984&p=2020807&hilit=knuut+welded+mail#p2020807)), the WMA part caught my eye, but it's a helmet with the mail, so I don't think it was that. Maybe it was a titanium one I saw, and not stainless? This guy bought a titanium coif for $450 from Knuut (http://forums.armourarchive.org/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=123464&p=1807070&hilit=titanium+coif#p1807070 (http://forums.armourarchive.org/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=123464&p=1807070&hilit=titanium+coif#p1807070)) although it looks like he lowered his price to $400 (http://www.weldedchainmail.com/ordering.htm (http://www.weldedchainmail.com/ordering.htm)). It definitely wasn't a byrnie / haubergeon / hauberk. Might have been a coif instead of an aventail, I know it was head gear though.
Title: Re: Attaching an Aventail
Post by: Thorsteinn on 2012-04-15, 04:20:51
Yeah, the first is helm + mail. For mine that would be a $570 Helm + $225 Aventail + $10 bits to afix them together.

The TI thing makes sense. Since 2001 TI's gone way up in price (M-777 anyone?).
Title: Re: Attaching an Aventail
Post by: Sir Wolf on 2012-04-15, 16:13:07
no i remember his prices used to be in the 450s. due to labor cost, hmmm interesting
Title: Re: Attaching an Aventail
Post by: Thorsteinn on 2012-04-16, 18:58:30
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/535629_388029491236698_100000889510293_1188986_2031576015_n.jpg)

It has arrived!
Title: Re: Attaching an Aventail
Post by: Sir Wolf on 2012-04-16, 20:31:15
very cool!
Title: Re: Attaching an Aventail
Post by: Sir Brian on 2012-04-16, 20:46:19
Sweet!  :)
Title: Re: Attaching an Aventail
Post by: Sir James A on 2012-04-16, 22:27:35
It has arrived!

3 days from click to your door? Nice!
Title: Re: Attaching an Aventail
Post by: Sir Wolf on 2012-04-17, 01:07:05
dang thats fast
Title: Re: Attaching an Aventail
Post by: Sir Rodney on 2012-04-17, 21:58:51
Smart purchase, I can't wait to see the results!

All I know is 14th century bascinets were historically attached to the leather via some sort of heavy thread in the examples I've seen.  This is the Lyle Bascinet in the Royal Armouries, and you can make out the thread sewn through the leather and then the upper most rings of the aventail.

(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-M__aRm1tVAk/S2cDyITQVBI/AAAAAAAAAZE/lXxeC1Exu1M/s477/000feh12.jpeg)

(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-WgXuftZ3mj8/S2cDy_vNWHI/AAAAAAAAAZU/wq-LugSIwR4/s480/%D0%BE%D0%B4%D1%88.jpeg)

I used the same method with some success as well as disappointment, most probably due to inferior materials and/or knowledge.  The thread I used first was the Tandy waxed variety.  After 8 total hours of SCA combat, the thread shredded (due to my inability to block a certain King's wrap shots  ;) ).  I then used the Tandy synthetic thread which seemed to last a little longer, but eventually failed in the same manner.  Finally I just wove the top row of mail through the existing thread holes in the leather band.  This was a cheat, but I haven’t had a problem since.

You might want to pony up for some much heavier thread as shown in the photograph.  It may be that this heavier thread will wear much better.

If you find a source, please let us know!
Title: Re: Attaching an Aventail
Post by: Thorsteinn on 2012-04-17, 22:01:37
Sverdbrjotr (Sword-breaker) now engraved on both sides of the helm aventail strap. Time to punch the holes for the aventail.

I will be lacing it on with a double line of thread saddle stitch style.

Title: Re: Attaching an Aventail
Post by: Thorsteinn on 2012-04-19, 01:12:11
Todays progress. Tonight will be rivets & sewing.

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=390088034364177&l=5ede6330b4 (https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=390088034364177&l=5ede6330b4)

(https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/s320x320/581516_390088034364177_100000889510293_1194044_413901511_n.jpg)
Title: Re: Attaching an Aventail
Post by: Sir Wolf on 2012-04-19, 11:32:41
awesome. now how did you do it? any rings have to be removed to tighten it up? or added or what?
Title: Re: Attaching an Aventail
Post by: Thorsteinn on 2012-04-19, 18:06:52
awesome. now how did you do it? any rings have to be removed to tighten it up? or added or what?

What do you mean?

I attached the rings to the row of punched holes on the belt-weight leather band on the backside via a saddle & whip stitch combo.
Then I added some leather edging to the bottom.
Then I figured out where the 8 rivets had to go (2 are holding my chin-strap on).
Then I pulled out the nasal a little.
Then I did some riveting (the 6 holes I had to drill were too small).
Then I laced on the maille to the top facegrill bar.


I used the this topic (http://forums.armourarchive.org/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=111605&hilit=sewing+aventail+rings) to help with the patterning of the rings.

Shot of same helm pre- aventail.

(https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/229977_205362546170061_100000889510293_603435_7822711_n.jpg)
Title: Re: Attaching an Aventail... AND Done!
Post by: Thorsteinn on 2012-04-20, 09:01:53
Rivets in.

Torse & favor on.

Padding & chinstrap in.

(https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/541250_391043457601968_100000889510293_1195838_1048460299_n.jpg)

(https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/563095_391042987602015_100000889510293_1195835_1155279641_n.jpg)

Hope to have some pics of me in full kit this weekend. :D

-Ivan
Title: Re: Attaching an Aventail... AND Done!
Post by: Sir Edward on 2012-04-20, 14:32:13

Hey great! I look forward to seeing the whole kit.
Title: Re: Attaching an Aventail... AND Done!
Post by: Sir William on 2012-04-20, 14:40:29
Me too, looks like you did a fantastic job there, Ivan.
Title: Re: Attaching an Aventail... AND Done!
Post by: Sir James A on 2012-04-20, 18:46:23
Me too, looks like you did a fantastic job there, Ivan.

Yep, great job Ivan.
Title: Re: Attaching an Aventail... AND Done!
Post by: Sir Patrick on 2012-04-21, 16:40:11
Awesome. I've always loved that look.