ModernChivalry.org
Main => The Armoury => Topic started by: Sir Ulrich on 2011-12-31, 17:24:10
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Well considering my father works at PSEG he managed to get a bunch of uninsulated veg tanned leather gloves, a whole bag that actually fits me quite well. Now my idea is to sew some maille to it after dying them a different color that will cover up the PSEG signs on it. Just dont know what kind of needle i'd need to sew it to the gloves, as you can see I already started working on making some maille for them, just not used to working with flat ring maille so all the bigger pieces I tried to make failed >_>. Still doesnt stop me from trying harder though.
(http://img706.imageshack.us/img706/6663/1001354d.jpg)
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Get a set of these!
http://www.michaels.com/All-Purpose-Needles/gc1333,default,pd.html?cgid=products-generalcrafts-leathercrafting&start=2 (http://www.michaels.com/All-Purpose-Needles/gc1333,default,pd.html?cgid=products-generalcrafts-leathercrafting&start=2)
You're going to want some kind of fingertip protection as well. Awls are great for making the initial hole in the leather. ;)
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Those are the exact same ones i've used for years. If you can't find a leather awel an ice pick works as well ( i've been using an old CocaCola one for a long time. A marker to mark out where you want to punch your needle holes is helfull ( if you go with a black dye Sharpie makes a silver marker that I use all the time for black leather marking ).
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Fingertip protection? Do you mean plate? Or just leather, if it's plate I don't have the resources to make any most I can do is maille as thats all I have resources for. I guess I'll head over to Michaels tomorrow and see what they got for leather working tools. Probably going to dye them black considering thats the only color thats going to go over the blue PSEG sign.
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He might mean fingertip protection when working with a leather needle. I had to repair my motorcycle gloves (poor stitching) and a the dull end of the needle can easily poke you just as bad as the pointy end.
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Yep that is exactly what I mean! The kit I purchased actually had a small leather thimble which I use to help push the needle through the leather in those areas I can't get a decent pre-hole punched. ;)
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its called a thimble :)
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Yep that is exactly what I mean! The kit I purchased actually had a small leather thimble which I use to help push the needle through the leather in those areas I can't get a decent pre-hole punched. ;)
My accent must have slipped in there! ;)
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ah dude hehe im working on like 3 hrs sleep. words are fuzzy i musta glassed right over it hehehe all 3 kids r sick and so is the wife. they even got pick eye too
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It's called a pink eye :)
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;D
seriously though I hope your family gets well soon Sir Wolf! :)
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Same here. :)
Even with my stupid sense of humor ;)
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I'm not sure you need to bother dying your gloves, once you have the maille in place, the offending logo should not be visible.
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Progress photos
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/375220_3036300029775_1331193069_4184545_565261506_n.jpg)
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/379794_3036300869796_1331193069_4184546_1848895437_n.jpg)
Making this is harder than I thought but at least I'm getting somewhere now that I am getting the hang of it. I still think mittens would be easier than gloves, I just don't know where to get leather mittens that are my size.
Last but not least my new riveting tool is MUCH better than the GDFB one, to put it bluntly GDFB's stuff is sh**, icefalcon is much higher quality despite being thinner rings they're much easier on the hands and gambeson.
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/392040_3036301109802_1331193069_4184547_728467622_n.jpg)
Wondering if these leather mittens are good enough to convert into maille ones
http://www.uberleather.com/mitts_gloves/unlined_choppermitt.html (http://www.uberleather.com/mitts_gloves/unlined_choppermitt.html)
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I'd say those mittens would be perfect! It will certainly be a lot less stitching you'll have to do! :)
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Only issue is my riveting tool rivets the rings at an angle. So it's rarely straightly riveted. Maybe thats just how I rivet or hold the thing cause some are riveted straight. My hands hurt like hell though from making just a SMALL patch of maille, thank god I am only making gloves, cant imagine how hard it is to make a shirt or hauberk like mine.
I'm getting tired of it peening the rivets at an angle, it isnt peening properly IMO because of that and if the tool is broken I am 100% DONE with making my own riveted maille, i'm sick of how they make piss poor tools that BREAK every time I use them.
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Agreed with Sir Brian on the mittens. Post a pic of the rivets setting at an angle; I might know what's going on but show me a pic or two and I might be able to help. Also, are you riveting the GDFB loose links with the IceFalcon tool, or IceFalcon rings w/IceFalcon tool?
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I'm getting tired of it peening the rivets at an angle, it isnt peening properly IMO because of that and if the tool is broken I am 100% DONE with making my own riveted maille, i'm sick of how they make piss poor tools that BREAK every time I use them
I know this will sound like " yeah, yeah he's done it for years, its easy for him ) but I rivet tiny stuff all the time and don'e use pliers. It takes a little practice but, its basically in front of the TV work. Theres no way for me to explain it through a key board but it has to do with how you strike with the hammer and the weight. I could explain this in person with a demo very easily. Maybe over the phone would be better but seen in person you'd see its all about technique, and technique gets better with simple practice. Pliers help if used and made properly but can be done without.
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(https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/405909_3045471699061_1331193069_4189703_931764998_n.jpg)
This is how it rivets them, occasionally it will rivet them normally but 7/10 times it will do this the other 2/10 it will FAIL to rivet them properly.
I only have used this tool with the icefalcon rings and rivets. didnt want to break anything doing it but I think the tool may be busted or something, which worries me considering it was 40 bucks...
I'm getting tired of it peening the rivets at an angle, it isnt peening properly IMO because of that and if the tool is broken I am 100% DONE with making my own riveted maille, i'm sick of how they make piss poor tools that BREAK every time I use them
I know this will sound like " yeah, yeah he's done it for years, its easy for him ) but I rivet tiny stuff all the time and don'e use pliers. It takes a little practice but, its basically in front of the TV work. Theres no way for me to explain it through a key board but it has to do with how you strike with the hammer and the weight. I could explain this in person with a demo very easily. Maybe over the phone would be better but seen in person you'd see its all about technique, and technique gets better with simple practice. Pliers help if used and made properly but can be done without.
So would I need an anvil to do this? if so what size would be decent cause I'm considering to hell with this tool as I already got like so many rings that are already riveted assuming thats how they should of been. Maybe the rivets aren't properly annealed or whatever not sure, some of them rivet easily others don't.
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Something like a small piece of railroad rail. Just 2 or three pounds that can sit in your lap while you're in a chair. Like these http://www.ebay.com/itm/Small-Antique-Anvil-8-1-4-Long-3-High1-1-2-Wide3-1-2lbs-Amish-Auction-Find-/110803568964?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item19cc684944 (http://www.ebay.com/itm/Small-Antique-Anvil-8-1-4-Long-3-High1-1-2-Wide3-1-2lbs-Amish-Auction-Find-/110803568964?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item19cc684944) http://www.ebay.com/itm/SMALL-VINTAGE-HOME-MADE-CAST-IRON-ANVIL-/350520267440?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item519ca2d2b0 (http://www.ebay.com/itm/SMALL-VINTAGE-HOME-MADE-CAST-IRON-ANVIL-/350520267440?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item519ca2d2b0)
The rivets are what I call skewed. This means ( to me ) that when the rivet is being set, it is not setting straight up and down so it S's out rather than compressing straight. This can happend when hammer setting/peining a rivet if you do not hold the rivet vertically when piening, usually when to much force is used to hammer. The rivet shank will S out the same way.
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I'm going to take a guess and say that your rings are mis-aligned when you're trying to clamp the rivet. Open the rings "up and down" as carefully as you can, and when you have it woven, use the pliers to "close" the ring overlap before setting the rivet. If the ring is putting tension on the rivet, it can set crooked like that when squeezed; my first couple did. The rivets are TINY so it takes almost immeasurably small amounts of pressure to tweak them out of alignment.
If that's not the case, open the pliers, close them slowly, and make sure the "dimples" for the rivet line up. If they don't, the pliers are out of alignment (and easy to adjust). If they do line up, just work on closing the links more before riveting - this would be my guess.
My hat's off to Allan for setting them by hand; I'd be driven to the pits of madness and despair trying to pein those tiny rivets!
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James, gorget tracking number 031116600000150101004.
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The riveting tool is a bit loose and bends to the side when I press it downward. Is there any way to fix this? Do I gotta peen it with a hammer so it lines up properly? I may be pressing too hard on the tool but i'm unsure because when I press lightly it bends as well. Thankfully the jaws of it aren't broken like the other tool and I believe this is probably fixable if I re align it.
Well I managed to rivet some of them a lot easier without the S shape by not pressing as hard... I was apparently pressing too hard, still gotta take time to align the heads of the tool though. I have to align them before i rivet though which is a pain. Any way to align the tool so it's tighter rather than looser though? Like peening it so it wont move to the side. I mean I can still peen rivets but pulling one of the handles so they align perfectly is a bit annoying, can't do it mindlessly like I used to make butted maille. Anyway thanks for telling me about riveting "too hard" I apparently was squeezing too hard when I was riveting them, now I can manage.
Nevermind, my father took an anvil and peened the tool to be tighter. Now I have no problem making riveted maille at all. Thanks for the help now I know how to peen rivets properly.
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The tongs appear to have a rivet to create the fulcrum so if you have anything anvil like you can pien it to tighten it. You won't want to wail away as you can over pien and make them to tight to work well. Pien a bit, test the movement, pien again and test till the desired tightness is reached.
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Allan, thanks for the tracking info.
Sir Ulrich, glad you got them working. With hand-made tools sometimes they need a little tweaking to set just right. Heck, even with robot-made tools it needs it sometimes. I found out my jigsaw blade is at about 2-3* off vertical when set to the factory 0* when I finally took a square to it to find out why I couldn't cut a straight line with a ruler... such is the toil of hands-on tasks, but the feeling of accomplishment is usually worth it.
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Yup, peened it tighter and it works like a charm, now I can make riveted maille again. Oddly I enjoy doing it despite it being extremely repetitive it relaxes me and the satisfying "crunch" of the rivet being set is nice too. Almost like cracking your knuckles in a way. Actually quite glad it's easier to peen rivets than I thought, I was squeezing too hard and thats what was causing both my hands to hurt and the rivets to S shape. Satisfying to actually make something for a change rather than buy it.
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Satisfying to actually make something for a change rather than buy it.
Definitely! Congrats on getting them working.
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I dunno...I like buying stuff. lol
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You are REALLY tempting me Ulrich to buy that tool and try my hand at rivetting my shirt when/if I get time to tailor it this winter. :)
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Sir Brian, go ahead...DO IT. You know you want to...so you can post pics as to progress and give us something to look forward to in the winter! ;)
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hmm I just might. I've already repaired my leg armor from when our Order had the first cutting/sword practice and I've repaired my Pourpoint with those really cool arming point reinforcement leather tabs, so I do need a decent winter project, however although my assistant is very patient with me I still can't seem to convey what exact assistance I need from her when working with my habergeon, so I might impose upon you Sir Edward if you intend to come up for the Free play Sunday on January 22 and put some lacing through the links in the area I need to tailor. ;)
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(https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/385882_3079386986922_1331193069_4202526_1857450392_n.jpg)
Progress photos, I made a bunch of squares of riveted maille, I work on this pretty damn fast oddly as I made one patch in less than 3 hours now that I discovered a new way to weave maille. It works different from butted, just wish I had a source of black solid rings, would make it easier.
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that I discovered a new way to weave maille. It works different from butted, just wish I had a source of black solid rings, would make it easier.
I don't suppose you could do a quick little video of that new way of weaving?
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Well I can explain it a bit, I usually weave it one ring at a time as opposed to connecting 4 in one as I used to do with butted. I rivet a whole bunch of rings at first and connect 1 open ring while putting a closed ring next to it, keep in mind this may SEEM slower than connecting 4 in one "butterflies" together but it works easy and quick for flat rings. I usually close the right first then I rivet it when I realize it's in place properly in case I weave it wrong. It takes a bit of practice but it works much better than my old method.
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Well I succumbed to the temptation and ordered some loose flat dome riveted rings and a dome rivet tool from here:
http://www.bytheswordinc.com/p-10301-loose-chainmail-rings-flat-ring-dome-riveted-code-4-29-ob2341.aspx (http://www.bytheswordinc.com/p-10301-loose-chainmail-rings-flat-ring-dome-riveted-code-4-29-ob2341.aspx)
I should have the tools and material shortly and will then be ready for that instructional video Sir Ulrich! ;)
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Yeah gonna work on it once I get the mittens. Ordered them back on Friday and they still haven't come. I will warn you about that riveting tool that it broke on me when I used it, it may of just been a bad temper though.
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Well I asked for a status update and I won't be getting my order in until late February. :-\
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Well I succumbed to the temptation and ordered some loose flat dome riveted rings and a dome rivet tool from here:
http://www.bytheswordinc.com/p-10301-loose-chainmail-rings-flat-ring-dome-riveted-code-4-29-ob2341.aspx (http://www.bytheswordinc.com/p-10301-loose-chainmail-rings-flat-ring-dome-riveted-code-4-29-ob2341.aspx)
I should have the tools and material shortly and will then be ready for that instructional video Sir Ulrich! ;)
Huzzah!
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feb is better than july! :)
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That's true! :)
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(https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/419658_3197992391983_1331193069_4243951_433993643_n.jpg)
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/393824_3197992631989_1331193069_4243952_85855076_n.jpg)
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/427206_3197992991998_1331193069_4243953_1122990377_n.jpg)
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/398449_3197993352007_1331193069_4243955_1091578290_n.jpg)
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/402026_3197993712016_1331193069_4243956_1154549828_n.jpg)
Well my mittens arrived. I think they're a size too big for me, considering returning them for a pair thats small. This is size medium, maybe I should put some linen padding inside them then that will make them fit me better? I dont know where to begin, they're NOT bad quality mittens and they're unlined, just a bit big.
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Allright I returned the medium pair and exchanged it for a small. Fits me perfectly, working on the maille as we speak, I practically have ONE done already if I connect the pieces I should be good. Only issue is the thumbs, how to connect them. When it comes to sewing I am using waxed thread. The mittens I got happen to be deerskin so they're very soft and sewing the maille to them would probably be easier than the hard leather of the gloves.
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Allright I returned the medium pair and exchanged it for a small. Fits me perfectly, working on the maille as we speak, I practically have ONE done already if I connect the pieces I should be good. Only issue is the thumbs, how to connect them. When it comes to sewing I am using waxed thread. The mittens I got happen to be deerskin so they're very soft and sewing the maille to them would probably be easier than the hard leather of the gloves.
Awesome, things are much easier when they fit properly from the start. Congrats.