ModernChivalry.org
Main => The Round Table => Topic started by: Sir Brian on 2011-04-02, 14:32:19
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http://www.theatlanticwire.com/global/2011/04/pastor-terry-jones-blame-un-worker-massacre/36288/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+TheAtlanticWire+%28The+Atlantic+Wire%29# (http://www.theatlanticwire.com/global/2011/04/pastor-terry-jones-blame-un-worker-massacre/36288/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+TheAtlanticWire+%28The+Atlantic+Wire%29#)
IMO it is the epitome of vanity and hypocrisy to use hateful and volatile grandstanding as a demonstration of defending your faith. I am sure it is best to just present your testimony of why you believe what you believe and let God do the converting and saving.
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Yeah, it's a pretty ridiculous set of circumstances. People who try to promote their faith by using hateful methods are doing no one, not even themselves, any sort of favor. And of course the media is all too happy to put a microphone in front of anyone who spouts hatred, when silence is the best medicine.
And let us not forget that when a violent crime occurs, such as from those insurgents mention in the article, it's the criminals that actually perpetrate the crime, no matter who they were listening to.
All the finger-pointing is pretty useless, but I think all of the parties mentioned above have done separate despicable things.
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Jones knew what he was doing when he burnt the Koran; put his church on the map, his face in the papers and he gets to strike a blow for 'the cause'...whatever that may be. It never ceases to amaze me- all of the Big Three religions call for religious tolerance and peace among men and yet, the clarion call to arms for Holy War is still heard and answered by a great many people, of all three faiths and more besides.
Do I think Pastor Jones to blame? Maybe he's a little more to blame than me, but when is assigning blame ever going to help a cause? I think those 'insurgents' as the article suggests, just bided their time to make their hit. That this occurred was just the spurring impetus to get the ball rolling. IMO.
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All the finger-pointing is pretty useless, but I think all of the parties mentioned above have done separate despicable things.
Agreed, sometimes there is TOO much depth into "why" someone is responsible for the death(s) of others. Sometimes it really has nothing to do with being protestant, jewish, catholic, christian, atheist, english, japanese, chinese, male, female, vampire, werewolf, or whatever other category they want to lump people into.
Sometimes people are just evil. There's no how or why to it, it's just how they are. And those people need to be dealt with accordingly, without putting a group label on them and looking for a group to blame.
As they said about 900 years ago in the Albigensian Crusade ... "Kill them all. God will know his own."
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Sometimes people are just evil. There's no how or why to it, it's just how they are. And those people need to be dealt with accordingly, without putting a group label on them and looking for a group to blame.
That's a good point, and to expand on it, sometimes the effort to understand and unravel the reasoning that people used leads down the wrong path. As an example... let's say someone murders a store clerk over a loaf of bread. Let's further say that the killer wasn't starving, or poor, and his reason was "I didn't like the way he looked at me!" How much prying into his motivations do you do before you lock him up (or execute him)? Or do you let him go because of the emotional hardships in his childhood that allegedly turned him into a remorseless killer?
That latter approach scares me deeply, but there are people in society who think that way.
There was a quote in "Batman Begins" that I really liked: "Criminals thrive on the indulgences of society's understanding." -- Ducard / Ra's Al Ghul
Unfortunately, human nature is what it is. Just as we'll always have individuals who champion worthy causes, there will always be those who are hateful and spiteful. The question come down to which group we choose to reward, and which we choose to punish.
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Damn, I'd wondered who'd said that...figures I got it from a movie. lol
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Ah, I also want to mention, my quote is not directed towards any specific side or group in the article - it's just a blanket statement for the "my religion is better than yours, and I'll kill you to prove it" types. :)
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The worst part is the rest of America told him yeah we know they are crazy over there so don't provoke them; yet he went ahead and now people are dead. I would love to see him face the families of those killed and explain to them what the value in his actions were.
Way to stay classy Mr. Jones.
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The good news is that it drove away nearly all of his parishioners.
http://www.newser.com/story/115584/terry-jones-koran-burning-drove-away-basically-all-parishioners.html (http://www.newser.com/story/115584/terry-jones-koran-burning-drove-away-basically-all-parishioners.html)
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I suppose that's good news...300 folks looking for a new fool to follow.
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The part I loved was when I heard on the news how much money the Feds are spending to protect him now (it's over $100K and rising). Why should the taxpayers have to pony up for that? I'm all for free speech, but a six-figure price tag is hardly "free". >:(
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With freedom comes responsibility. He's free to burn books and spout hate-speech, but he's also free to reap the inherent dangers as well, IMHO. :)
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With freedom comes responsibility.
Thank you. I wish those American's who demand and declare their freedoms so loudly also recognize the tremendous responsibilities that are required of them to maintain those same freedoms; not only for themselves, but for future generations as well.
Another pet peeve of mine: We are guaranteed "the pursuit of happiness" in this country, we are not guaranteed happiness. ;)
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With freedom comes responsibility. He's free to burn books and spout hate-speech, but he's also free to reap the inherent dangers as well, IMHO. :)
Agreed wholeheartedly. With freedom of {x} means also accepting the consequences of being stupid. Last I checked, murder is still illegal, as is assault and battery ... and "protection from others" isn't a constitutional right. So, why are we protecting him??
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The part I loved was when I heard on the news how much money the Feds are spending to protect him now (it's over $100K and rising). Why should the taxpayers have to pony up for that? I'm all for free speech, but a six-figure price tag is hardly "free". >:(
With freedom comes responsibility. He's free to burn books and spout hate-speech, but he's also free to reap the inherent dangers as well, IMHO. :)
What is really pathetic is that Pastor abusing and twisting the bible scripture in Acts 19:18-20 to conform to his twisted self-serving ideology when in that scripture the essential difference was the newly converted willingly burned their own troves of arcane books as a form of their repentance. If a person’s heart is not changed by the Holy Spirit than nothing will change it! I cannot understand how folks who profess so strong and loudly of the piety are so far off the mark.
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Perception. And the knowledge that the masses are more easily controlled than individuals.
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With freedom comes responsibility. He's free to burn books and spout hate-speech, but he's also free to reap the inherent dangers as well, IMHO.
What is really pathetic is that Pastor abusing and twisting the bible scripture in Acts 19:18-20 to conform to his twisted self-serving ideology when in that scripture the essential difference was the newly converted willingly burned their own troves of arcane books as a form of their repentance. If a person’s heart is not changed by the Holy Spirit than nothing will change it! I cannot understand how folks who profess so strong and loudly of the piety are so far off the mark.
After reading the article on this and reading this thread. I find myself agreeing to everything that Sir Brain and Sir Edward are saying and I agree that acts such as these carry a huge price tag, usually the irremovable stain on their reputation and credibility.
I do not condone acts such as these, religious hatred has been the cause of wars and prejudice since the beginning of time, we Knights are sworn to protect those who are prey to individuals that seek to stain their honor and benefit themselves.
In terms of being aware of the fact that the bad side of Islam is radicalism and Shariah Law, it does exist. It is no joke at all. But does that mean that we have to go to the extreme to get the point out? Only if the situation calls for it, in this case, he put a price on his head and soul.
That is my take on this issue.