ModernChivalry.org
Main => The Armoury => Topic started by: Sir Ulrich on 2015-01-30, 23:37:44
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http://allbeststuff.com/c-medieval-chainmail-armor/Round-Riveted-Chain-Mail-Shirt/Round-Washer-Chain-Mail-Suit-Hauberk-Coif-Ventail-Mittens-Chausses (http://allbeststuff.com/c-medieval-chainmail-armor/Round-Riveted-Chain-Mail-Shirt/Round-Washer-Chain-Mail-Suit-Hauberk-Coif-Ventail-Mittens-Chausses)
I just recently got a new gambeson at a steal price of 45 bucks, and this one was off the rack but oddly it fits me better than my custom one which is a bit bulky around the chest. I been working out a lot lately and realize I tailored my maille too tight to go under any thicker gambeson (but it fits fine under my old one) I been considering getting one of these ABS hauberks with the integrated coifs and mittns. I WAS going to do roman reenacting but decided against it cause I dont have the room for it nor do I feel like buying tons of new stuff as I noticed stuff like hamatas are upwards to 700 bucks, along with all the legionary gear being quite expensive it's not something I can do at the moment. I'm not sure how to ask these people for custom sizes and to be blunt I dont want the chausses that come with it cause I already have a decent pair that fit me well enough and are tailored just fine. Is there any way I can order just the hauberk with the integrated mittens coif and ventail. I'm selling some of my old stuff as well like those mittens I ordered cause I'm dissatisfied with them to be frank, (hate working with maille and tailoring and cutting and crap I really DONT want to do that ever again) I DONT want to attach them to my hauberk cause I plan to cut that ones bottom flaps and possibly bottom sleeves to use it for a later century impression when I get around to doing that (would rather have gauntlets than integrated mittens cause theres NO way I'm going to do fighting without good hand protection). I know ABS offers tailoring as Nate got his done like that and it seems to fit well enough, I been considering the same. Any suggestions?
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For the tailoring, just give them the sizes you want at the places you want (such as bicep, elbow, wrist, waist) and they will give you a quote.
Combat with maille mittens instead of gauntlets is a great way to break fingers. Good choice going with gauntlets. :) (You can still break fingers with gauntlets, just less of a chance...)
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For the tailoring, just give them the sizes you want at the places you want (such as bicep, elbow, wrist, waist) and they will give you a quote.
Combat with maille mittens instead of gauntlets is a great way to break fingers. Good choice going with gauntlets. :) (You can still break fingers with gauntlets, just less of a chance...)
What if they are double mail mittens?
Hmm When do the first plate gauntlets appear?
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You're the customer, so you tell him what you want (or don't) and he'll accomodate you. He's pretty quick on communications and production, I got my hauberk relatively quickly (I expected it to take 2 months and it did).
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For the tailoring, just give them the sizes you want at the places you want (such as bicep, elbow, wrist, waist) and they will give you a quote.
Combat with maille mittens instead of gauntlets is a great way to break fingers. Good choice going with gauntlets. :) (You can still break fingers with gauntlets, just less of a chance...)
What if they are double mail mittens?
Hmm When do the first plate gauntlets appear?
Armored combat with only mail = Desire to have bones broken
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How about jousting with maille only? I mean, what could go wrong?
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What if they are double mail mittens?
Hmm When do the first plate gauntlets appear?
Because modern combat amounts to every weapon being blunt force trauma, the reality is that maille is only partially protective. It will protect you from abrasions and things like that, but it will not protect against a whack with steel or rattan against delicate bones like your phalanges. What is protecting those delicate bones is rigid defense. It's the rigidity that is dispersing impact force and preventing bones from bending in ways they shouldn't. Without those two things, your fingers will break. So, in order for maille to really protect your fingers, you'd have to have enough layers to make it rigid, which defeats the entire purpose of maille. It would also become so heavy at that point it would be doubly self-defeating because the mitten would become a weight on a long lever arm (in this case your actual arm) rendering the protection too unwieldy.
In the real middle ages, knights of the maille era were more worried about protecting their hands from cutting and slashing wounds that were incidental in combat. But if someone took a full on swing to their hand they new it was going to break or at least be pretty damaged. It was also the best they had for a long swath of time. Since we're more concerned with sport safety in what we do (we're not looking to kill, injure or maim people) maille is always a poor choice for hand protection. Even if hands are 'illegal targets' they just tend to get hit by accident too frequently to leave it to chance.
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Welp I took the measurements. Turns out off the rack it should fit me totally fine. Now I am not sure if I should get it with the chausses or without. I mean if my legs grow from my workout routine I think having a spare set would be beneficial for the future. My parents actually dont mind that I am doing this surprisingly, they actually were supportive of it. Ever since I started working out more they think wearing armor helps me build up my body so both of them think it's good for me. Both of them also seemed open to me trying WMA and stuff as well. In all honesty I just dont know if 45 pounds (which the hauberk weighs) is too much.
My sleeve length is 23 maybe just 21 to be honest cause the sleeve goes over my hand a bit.
All the way around the armpit is 21 inches, and around my wrists at the bottom it's 11.5
MY hand would be 8.5 inches and my chest size is 38.5
Chain Mail Shirt: 16G 9MM
Chest Size: 52 inch
This is a comfort fit for someone with actual chest size of 42 inches
Sleeve Length from Armpit: 20 inch + 8 inches of Mittens (4 fingers & thumb seperate)
Mittens will have chain mail at the back & leather palms
Sleeve Circumference: 20 inch at armpit tapered to 12 inches at wrist
Overall Length from Shoulder: 42 inch
7 inches split at bottom front & back for leg movement
Not sure how well those would fit but it looks pretty damn close apart from the chest size being 52 instead. Pretty sure that would be fine though cause my other hauberk is a comfortable fit for 48 inch chest and this one says 42 inch chest.
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His measurements leave a bit to be desired- 52" is the measurement it will be after you have on all of your arming wear and under clothing, around the outside. If you have a 42" chest, the seller assumes that the 52" should fit- and it should, unless you're into extra large/heavy padding which will increase your measurement.
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So I should be fine with the measurements? I got a 38 1/2 inch chest when it comes to having my gambeson on. I mean my other hauberk was 48 inch chest and fit me just fine. Maybe I should just ask them to make the chest size smaller? But I am a bit cautious about that.
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It's easier to take out rings than to add them back in. Well, both are easy, and both are a bit mind-numbingly-painful to me, but I'd rather subtract rings than add. I'd over-estimate rather than under-estimate.
Generally speaking, take 25% off the size of 9mm rings when sizing for flexion and compression, so 52" overall would be approx 41.5" chest size (so yes, a few inches too large on you).
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I too would always much prefer removing rings than adding them. Just keep in mind that if you're talking about removing rings from anywhere other than the edges of the shirt (cuffs, neckline or hem) you will have to add back rings regardless.
Keeping that in mind I intentionally ordered my last shirt with sleeves and a hem that I knew would be too long so that I could trim that to exactly where I want them to lay on my kit. With the chest size I trusted the manufacturer (customchainmail) to size it according to my chest size in my gambeson instead of ordering slightly too big because I didn't want to mess with the body tube.
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Well I messaged them back hope they get back with me soon, hope I dont order a size too big because of my arms being a bit slightly longer than the default size.
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If you need the arms to be longer, he can make the longer. He isn't getting them from the manufacturer, he is the manufacturer (ABS).
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If you need the arms to be longer, he can make the longer. He isn't getting them from the manufacturer, he is the manufacturer (ABS).
^ Yep. When I ordered mine I asked for tapered sleeves, longer sleeves, and a longer hemline too. He did all of that.
I also did as Sir Ian did, intentionally getting over my estimate of the length of sleeves and hemline. That was great because my hemline estimate was slightly off, with the 2" extra it ended up being perfect. Had I not overshot, I'd still be sitting in a dark corner with a pair of pliers crying over having to deal with adding length out of 6mm rings.
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Well he messaged me about shoulder measurement which I am unsure of how to take. He also said at least 48 inches should suit me. My old hauberk was 48 but cause I tailored it it didnt fit right over the gambeson. I think I may ask him to make it 48 maybe 50 cause i'm working out and I dont want it to not fit me afterward.
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Every time I see this thread, I keep thinking it's a thread about mail made from ABS plastic (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acrylonitrile_butadiene_styrene), and feel like I should jump in and say "OMG no!". ;)
I imagine it would be even worse for armor than it is for plumbing. Though it makes for good LEGOs. :)
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I imagine it would be even worse for armor than it is for plumbing.
As a former “city desk” order writer for a plumbing wholesaler, I can attest that ABS doesn’t hold a candle to solid core schedule 40 PVC for DWV (drain, waste & vent).
For a new fighter in the SCA, ABS can be an inexpensive way to get armoured as long as it’s properly formed and well disguised. I made a bunch of killer elbow and knee cops from sheet ABS by heating the blanks in a toaster oven, forming them over steel cops, covering them with suede leather and adding decorative rivets. (Quality ABS can be purchased in 4’ x 8’ sheets through a plumbing wholesale house.)
Getting back to the original discussion regarding All Best Stuff, I’m really excited to see how this turns out!
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all i can think of is abs brakes for some reason
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I asked them about what weight 18 gauge would of been, I do kinda wanna go with 16 cause it just seems like tougher stuff, I was told schmid maille weighed about 30something pounds so obviously 18 gauge flat is a bit on the.. flimsy side if used for larger rings, unless you go for wedge riveted or smaller gauge. To be blunt I dont really like the flat ring round riveted stuff so I'd prefer the round ring stuff. Might have to put up with the extra weight but it's not like I plan to wear anything OVER this maille, thats what my lighter wedge riveted hauberk is for, I plan to use that one for a 14th century kit and this new one for a just maille 12th-13th century outfit.
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Isn't round rings also the proper road to take for anything pre-14th century pretty much?
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Isn't round rings also the proper road to take for anything pre-14th century pretty much?
Intergrated/Alternating Round ring and solid ring is the safe road for pre 14th.
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Flat rings historically werent nearly as flat as they are made out to be by modern maille makers, with the exception of wedge riveted. Round ring alternating is the way to go if you want pre 1300s maille. Thats why I am going for this combination rather than the flat ring riveted stuff.
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Welp been a while since updating. I took my measurements and got the right size for it. They asked me if I wanted a separate coif or a integrated. Robert Coleman told me the integrated ones there have issues with turning your head so it stays still. Went with separate cause I plan to cut the avantail down to be square shaped. That seems to of been done as early as 1170 so it's still period for the third crusade era, seems to of been mostly common in Germanic Europe as well. I got the 16 gauge alternating stuff with round ring round riveted. Might be a bit heavy but I hope it works out for me. The flat ring stuff seems a bit... weak. To be blunt I was trying to get as close as I could to this schmid 12th century maille, which Nate took a pic of his and his is 16 gauge round riveted all riveted. I'm going with alternating because I prefer the look of that more. I prefer the round rings to flat. Heres some pics of both the Schmid 12 century maille and Nate's maille and they look pretty similar actually.
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Well he messaged me about shoulder measurement which I am unsure of how to take. He also said at least 48 inches should suit me. My old hauberk was 48 but cause I tailored it it didnt fit right over the gambeson. I think I may ask him to make it 48 maybe 50 cause i'm working out and I dont want it to not fit me afterward.
Measure like you would for chest circumference, but go outside of the shoulders. Best to have someone help you- its important because if the shirt is made to your chest measurements you may never actually be able to wear it as squeezing in your shoulders may cause it to bind and you'll just be stuck. If your other hauberk was a 48 and you could get in and out of it fine then its a safe number, if you can't find someone to take the actual measurement. Best if you're wearing your arming clothes before you take measurement.
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I just payed up for it, cost me 490 dollars. Good price for all the stuff honestly. Cant wait to get it but not sure when I will. Went for the separate coif cause I plan to cut the avantail up to be square rather than round. Hopefully 12 inches of tapering will be enough as theres no way to tailor it with the mittens added. But 490 for a full suit is really a good deal, less than what I payed for for you current suit.
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I just payed up for it, cost me 490 dollars. Good price for all the stuff honestly. Cant wait to get it but not sure when I will. Went for the separate coif cause I plan to cut the avantail up to be square rather than round. Hopefully 12 inches of tapering will be enough as theres no way to tailor it with the mittens added. But 490 for a full suit is really a good deal, less than what I payed for for you current suit.
I hope everything fits alright.
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The package is shipping apparently I got free shipping too which is a rarity.. One 24 pound box and another 20 pound box. Apparently the hauberk alone doesn't weigh 45 pounds, he meant the complete set was 45 pounds. 24+20=44 so the sizing must've taken off a pound of steel. So I can deal with a 24 pound hauberk just fine, my guess for the reason mine will weigh less than Nate's is that mine has those flat alternating rings in it that brings the weight down due to them not being made of as much thick metal. I dunno what I was thinking when I thought I could handle a 45 pound hauberk. I must've been insane or something.... I dont think historical maille even weighed that much. Most historical maille was around 24-35 pounds in weight depending on ring size. I will be updating this soon once the package arrives.
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The weight depends on the shirt itself- even historical counterparts will have some variance unless they were made by the same armorer in the same frame of time. As for how much one weighed over another, hard to tell for me as I can only go off of what's published. I think the shipping weight might be guesstimated- I can't imagine a coif weighing 20lbs. Unless you're also getting chausses- I could see the box being closer to that weight then.
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Yeah I did get chausses with the coif. Plan on cutting the coif's avantail to be square too. Dont really like round ones much though I did get the full set cause it would be cheaper to get it now and take advantage of the free shipping they threw in than order later.
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Weight of historical mail varied based on the density and weave of the rings.
A few pounds of the weight is probably packing supplies and boxing. It'll probably come in at about 40 pounds for all of it.
Yours should weigh less than Nate's because you are shorter and thinner too, so, less total rings.
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Weight of historical mail varied based on the density and weave of the rings.
you are shorter and thinner too, so, less total rings.
Talking trash about me james? ;)
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Allright it says it's in Edison New Jersey. I should be getting it today if I am lucky. So anxious about this, I hope these months of communications and waiting were worth it. To believe I started Emailing them back in January god thats a long wait. At least the shipping was speedy, plus I didnt even have to pay for it. They gave me the shipping free for whatever reason.
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Well it came. Honestly the maille is much higher quality than I expected. All the rivet holes are even and the rings are nice and evenly riveted. I dont see any rings that are poorly riveted or set poorly. The chausses are a bit on the baggy side but thats good because I can actually put my knees up to my chest no problem which is much better than my old ones. The hauberk is HARD to get on, because it's so tight and fits well with little to no extra maille. Cut my hands up pretty badly shaking it to get it on, which was a huge pain. Only minor complaint about the hauberk was it lacked a horseman's slit which I believe is WHY it's so hard to get on. I had my mother mark where to cut one and I will be adding it shortly, not that big a deal as I've done it before. Now the disappointing part was the coif, I cant even turn my head with it and the ventail still leaves about a half a CM of openess in the neck, the avantail of the coif is a bit big and I might have to shorten it. I can barely turn my head with it also which I think is just a problem with indian made coifs. Guess I been spoiled by my Schmid coif. The opening for the head makes it hard to get my other shorter avantailed coif on a bit to cover it. So I got a project coif to work on and fix up, a hauberk that doesnt require any tailoring apart from cutting a horseman's slit and a pair of well fitting chausses that are much more comfortable than my old tight ones. In all honesty I'd buy from ABS again, this maille I actually like better than icefalcon or GDFB. Pics of me wearing the hauberk will soon follow.
Edit: Heres as promised pics of me wearing the hauberk
(http://i.imgur.com/lYvbT4t.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/Y81XsFU.jpg)
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Too bad about the coif. The hauberk looks good on you! A rider's slit would be a simple fix and if you want to put slits in the palms that should also be very easy to do. Congrats!
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Agreed, that hauberk fitment is great!
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Wundebar!!!!
also where did you get the Arming cap from?
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http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B008YXCAQM/ref=pd_lpo_sbs_dp_ss_2?pf_rd_p=1944687562&pf_rd_s=lpo-top-stripe-1&pf_rd_t=201&pf_rd_i=B008YXCAAI&pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_r=16Y77ZQBEE5BXNNP4E93 (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B008YXCAQM/ref=pd_lpo_sbs_dp_ss_2?pf_rd_p=1944687562&pf_rd_s=lpo-top-stripe-1&pf_rd_t=201&pf_rd_i=B008YXCAAI&pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_r=16Y77ZQBEE5BXNNP4E93)
Not the exact place I got it but it's of the same make. It's made by the same company as your gambeson is so it will match. I do warn it's pretty thick so your helm may not fit right.
I also wrote a review of this right here http://modernchivalry.org/forum/index.php/topic,3576.0.html (http://modernchivalry.org/forum/index.php/topic,3576.0.html) Hope it's professional for you guys but it was needed, I kinda wanna encourage other people to buy from ABS rather than the other makers of "bingo wing maille".
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Wow, they did an excellent job- I wondered how the length with the integral mittens was going to play out. Has me reconsidering- I didn't go for it because the pics he had up looked way off (gorilla arms and the like). Nice, Ulrich, really nice!
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Looks great! Congratulations on the new purchase! :)
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How does it look and feel when you bend your arm, Ulrich?
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How does it look and feel when you bend your arm, Ulrich?
I was just thinking the same thing, did you see Mac's elbow pockets recently on the Dusting off the Cobwebs thread too? ;)
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How does it look and feel when you bend your arm, Ulrich?
I was just thinking the same thing, did you see Mac's elbow pockets recently on the Dusting off the Cobwebs thread too? ;)
Every time I see his work I hate my kit a little bit more. :)
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How does it look and feel when you bend your arm, Ulrich?
I was just thinking the same thing, did you see Mac's elbow pockets recently on the Dusting off the Cobwebs thread too? ;)
I did, I did! I want to 'suggest' that to the guy when I go to make the purchase.
Every time I see his work I hate my kit a little bit more. :)
Man, I know what you're saying. Truly. lol