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Main => The Armoury => Topic started by: RackThor on 2014-01-02, 17:13:16
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SCA target archery is not too different from target practice really, however I wanted to see if any of you have personal stories about being, or encountering combat archers on the field of battle. Were they effective? How did you fight combat archers? If you are one share your knowledge, and if your good at beating them please do the same.
Thank you,
RackThor
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Possible strategies against stationary combat archers in groups or line formation on open field:
Phalanx formation or Roman pseudo for line infantry with body-size shields; or
A rapid frontal charge with good dispersal to minimize losses & overwhelm them; or
A flanking charge with cavalry in conjunction or in the lead.
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I was a SCA Combat Archer back in the early '90's.
Were they effective?
Could be, especially if you were fighting back when bird blunts & chemical stoppers where used. They were good at either firing into mass formations or for taking out select targets. After they went to APD's & Baldar blunts they became a bit of a joke.
How did you fight combat archers?
Used to be all you had to do was get within 5 yards of 'em and call em dead. So if some archers were causing you pain just send out some plate armoured boys (plate being proof) and kill 'em. Now if you have a lot of 'em you just go after them with your shield or glaive and chase them down. At Antir/West War in '93 or '94 I was able to show that Antir archers couldn't hit a dancing man at 30 paces. I was that man.
Siege weapons, Javelin's, and good throwing axes can be much more efficient.
I can honestly say that CA has changed quite a bit in the past 20 years. Way more than Heavy or Rapier.
Do you have any other questions? I have more stories than that if you would like to hear them.
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I know some pals in the SCA that I am around that do very well as a SCA archer however I considered trying my hand at it, but only if it is still effective, however I did notice the armor in your photo Thorsteinn. Did you make it yourself?
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Dont you need to have done HEMA Or something along those lines to join or particapate in s.c.a.?
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Dont you need to have done HEMA Or something along those lines to join or particapate in s.c.a.?
No, SCA combat is its own sport, and requires no prior experience.
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Dont you need to have done HEMA Or something along those lines to join or particapate in s.c.a.?
No, SCA combat is its own sport, and requires no prior experience.
Sir Ian is very correct; you don’t need any prior experience to join the SCA. Simply find your local chapter via the interweb and show up at the next fighter’s practice. They may have some loaner gear to get you going.
The SCA can be a funny place. Some take it to near living history standards, some take it too close to Middle Earth, some are too serious, and some don’t take it seriously enough. Find your happy place and branch out from there. :)
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I know some pals in the SCA that I am around that do very well as a SCA archer however I considered trying my hand at it, but only if it is still effective, however I did notice the armor in your photo Thorsteinn. Did you make it yourself?
Give it a go! YMMV and you could have a blast. I started back when CA was the realm of the light fighter. My first war as a combatant was West/An-Tir 1993 in Yreka, CA. Got to man the Ballista & had a blast.
Not a single piece of armor I wear hasn't passed through my hands to be made or modded. I made my lamellar, gambeson, & coif.
A pic of me all prettied up at a demo in Reno is attached, and one at the 2013 Silver Desert Champinship held in Fallon, NV where I'm less pretty.
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Well, I think Ill do good.
I have 2 years of sport fencing exeperience.
Sparred with my brothers(free style) up till I was about 12.
Ya, lol. Thought I needed more combat experience to join Sca
Wow, This is Good News! im gonna Join As soon As I have the Right Gear.
So far I have one thing that is(from reading requirements) sca worthy.
This Is Fantastic News!
give me a few years Ill be on the fields of Pennsic in No time.
Huzzah!
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Wow, This is Good News! im gonna Join As soon As I have the Right Gear.
You can go to a fighter practice without having any gear. In fact it's probably best you do to make sure you like it before you spend a ton on gear. And if you do like it, you'll have a better idea of what type of gear works best for you. Buying gear before playing is not advised.
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Makes sense. will Do.
Heh. Im not much of an Archer, But are there rules against German Gothic Archers! With Blades on there Bows!
That would be scary
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We all start in loaner armour. It's what makes us know why custom stuff is so keen. :)
BTW If you buy nothing else (and make the rest), then buy your helm. If you want to do SCA/HEMA/WMA I know some folks that'll make you an LH helm that will pass all three inc HMB/BOTN if you like.
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You can buy my SCA helm! ;-)
http://forums.armourarchive.org/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=168864 (http://forums.armourarchive.org/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=168864)
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You can buy my SCA helm! ;-)
http://forums.armourarchive.org/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=168864 (http://forums.armourarchive.org/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=168864)
Windrose is keen stuff. So is Aesir.
Mine was made by the guy at Aesir when he was at Windrose. :D
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You can buy my SCA helm! ;-)
http://forums.armourarchive.org/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=168864 (http://forums.armourarchive.org/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=168864)
+1 for Windrose.
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I have my fencing mask:)
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gonna have to pass on that helm Ian, sorry. For now its out of budget.
As far as wearing mail Armor goes, What are the requirements?
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For the SCA? What Kingdom do you live in? And what do you mean by wearing of mail?
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Let me Find out.
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Apparently in the Philly area(I googled), theres a branch called the barony of bhakail. The southernmost barony in the Eastern Kingdom.
Sorry was talking about other areas other than helm.
Different kingdoms and Battles have different Requirements in armor dont they?
If I got a good gambeson(I have a cruddy one) and Riveted mail could I participate in events? Or would I need more protection?
(I know requirements for plate armor, And helms)
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Nate, you would still need elbow, knee, and kidney protection at minimum...also gloves (duh)
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Some individual groups have requirements that go above and beyond the basic requirements found in the SCA Marshall's Handbook. You should really go to an SCA fighter practice FIRST and they will be able to guide you on all the specific requirements that govern them. I know it's very tempting to buy a bunch of stuff beforehand, but you're going to waste a lot of money and end up replacing a bunch of stuff in the future because you got too excited and jumped the gun and bought stuff your local group is going to say no to. Let your local SCA group tell you what you should and should not get.
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Buying gear before playing is not advised.
Oh, *I* will totally advise buying gear before playing. I'll advise buying multiple sets of gear, so you have different ones to try out.
But that's because I'm happy to spend other people's money on lots of armor, whether they need to or not. ;)
**** I'm joking about buying lots of gear. Best way is to see if you like something before you spend the money. If you like it, invest in it. ****
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Well I have my fencing mask, some thick hockey gloves. And some 14 gauge knee pads on upper leg padding.
That would get me through some practices .
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Well I have my fencing mask, some thick hockey gloves. And some 14 gauge knee pads on upper leg padding.
That would get me through some practices .
You can't use a fencing mask for SCA heavy combat. There are also several other pieces of protection required just to meet the minimums. Just go to a fighter practice and let them show you the ropes and show you what specific gear you need. Not sure why you seem kind of resistant to doing that. I'm positive the SCA veterans on this forum would advise you just go and see what you think, and get in some loner gear first.
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I'm positive the SCA veterans on this forum would advise you just go and see what you think, and get in some loner gear first.
I'd say that's true of any sword-fighting group, HEMA/WMA included. Different groups have different requirements, and different emphasis. It's best to find out from those you'll be participating with, what it is that they would recommend to you.
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SCA combat for minors also requires parental consent forms if I remember correctly.
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It is best to go to a practice...look for the knight marshal or a white belt (symbol of a knight in the sca) or a red belt (squire) they will definitely show you the ropes and talk about kingdom requirements...you don't even have the minimum to fight so I would go to a practice. And I wholeheartedly say do not buy any gear until you know that it is what you want to do. It can get very expensive...my helm alone was $500. Also you need to be 16 and have parental consent. If you let me know where you are I will find lis for you and point you in the right direction.
Lord Chagatai Burilgi, squire to Sir Chinua, kingdom of the Outlands, barony of al-Barran
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
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SCA target archery is not too different from target practice really, however I wanted to see if any of you have personal stories about being, or encountering combat archers on the field of battle. Were they effective? How did you fight combat archers? If you are one share your knowledge, and if your good at beating them please do the same.
Thank you,
RackThor
Sorry RackThor, I meant to answer your question but then … Squirrel! … Where was I? Ah yes, SCA archery.
SCA target archery is a separate competitive sport very similar to regular target archery, except you’re in period clothing and using the most period bow that you can make or afford. You shoot at butts or bales and are scored accordingly. Sometimes Kingdoms run a yearlong championship at several different events and the total points winner is crowned archery champion.
SCA combat archery is a whole other animal. You are required wear full armour and are considered fair game on the field of combat. The arrows are very large in diameter and the safety tips are heavy. Combine this with gauntlets and your accuracy leaves something to be desired.
The best way I can describe SCA combat archery is like having a 20’ spear. You can reach out and touch others who can’t reach you in return (Knights hate this fact). Working in pairs with another archer has worked well for me. It’s hard for your targets to focus on two archers 10’ apart. When the lead archer fires, the second archer usually finds a nice gap to hit as someone invariably raises a shield or tries to protect their buddy. Beware of flanking maneuvers as a unit that catches an undefended archer in the backfield will grind you into the ground for the suffering you’ve caused.
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Ya I'll have to go to the combat practice. I'm sorry, I didn't address going to it.
How about this, once I go to a combat practice and get associated with a local group, I'll inform you guys of what kinda stuff I'll need.
It will probably be in spring. When the weather warms up.
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Ya I'll have to go to the combat practice. I'm sorry, I didn't address going to it.
How about this, once I go to a combat practice and get associated with a local group, I'll inform you guys of what kinda stuff I'll need.
It will probably be in spring. When the weather warms up.
sounds like a solid plan!
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Dont you need to have done HEMA Or something along those lines to join or particapate in s.c.a.?
Actually they have people "Marshals" that will train you in any form of martial combat that you want. But to join is easy as showing up to meetings, going to events, etc. To be an official member there is a fee but that is it.
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Well, I think Ill do good.
I have 2 years of sport fencing exeperience.
Sparred with my brothers(free style) up till I was about 12.
Ya, lol. Thought I needed more combat experience to join Sca
Wow, This is Good News! im gonna Join As soon As I have the Right Gear.
So far I have one thing that is(from reading requirements) sca worthy.
This Is Fantastic News!
give me a few years Ill be on the fields of Pennsic in No time.
Huzzah!
Rejoice my friend! If you need any aid in joining let me know or let your local chapters chatelaine know because it is our job to help bring in new people. Looking from your photo if that is you than you seem to have everything you need
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SCA target archery is not too different from target practice really, however I wanted to see if any of you have personal stories about being, or encountering combat archers on the field of battle. Were they effective? How did you fight combat archers? If you are one share your knowledge, and if your good at beating them please do the same.
Thank you,
RackThor
Sorry RackThor, I meant to answer your question but then … Squirrel! … Where was I? Ah yes, SCA archery.
SCA target archery is a separate competitive sport very similar to regular target archery, except you’re in period clothing and using the most period bow that you can make or afford. You shoot at butts or bales and are scored accordingly. Sometimes Kingdoms run a yearlong championship at several different events and the total points winner is crowned archery champion.
SCA combat archery is a whole other animal. You are required wear full armour and are considered fair game on the field of combat. The arrows are very large in diameter and the safety tips are heavy. Combine this with gauntlets and your accuracy leaves something to be desired.
The best way I can describe SCA combat archery is like having a 20’ spear. You can reach out and touch others who can’t reach you in return (Knights hate this fact). Working in pairs with another archer has worked well for me. It’s hard for your targets to focus on two archers 10’ apart. When the lead archer fires, the second archer usually finds a nice gap to hit as someone invariably raises a shield or tries to protect their buddy. Beware of flanking maneuvers as a unit that catches an undefended archer in the backfield will grind you into the ground for the suffering you’ve caused.
Thank you for your advice and insight!
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Well, I think Ill do good.
I have 2 years of sport fencing exeperience.
Sparred with my brothers(free style) up till I was about 12.
Ya, lol. Thought I needed more combat experience to join Sca
Wow, This is Good News! im gonna Join As soon As I have the Right Gear.
So far I have one thing that is(from reading requirements) sca worthy.
This Is Fantastic News!
give me a few years Ill be on the fields of Pennsic in No time.
Huzzah!
Rejoice my friend! If you need any aid in joining let me know or let your local chapters chatelaine know because it is our job to help bring in new people. Looking from your photo if that is you than you seem to have everything you need
None of my stuff is combat worthy.
My helm is only 16 gauge.
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In the West Kingdom you can fight in a 16 ga helm. It's just not recommended.
Where do you live again? I can link you to your Kingdom's Heavy Combat, Rapier, and Cut & Trust rules if you like.
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In the West Kingdom you can fight in a 16 ga helm. It's just not recommended.
Where do you live again? I can link you to your Kingdom's Heavy Combat, Rapier, and Cut & Trust rules if you like.
That would be much appreciated.
I actually am not sure what my helms gauge is.
It was bought by my father on eBay. All I truelly know about it is that it's iron and isn't 1 solid ingot or piece.
How can I find out what gauge it is?
Btw I live in P.A. Eastern kingdom.
( the land of cheesesteaks)
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That would be much appreciated.
I actually am not sure what my helms gauge is.
It was bought by my father on eBay. All I truelly know about it is that it's iron and isn't 1 solid ingot or piece.
How can I find out what gauge it is?
Btw I live in P.A. Eastern kingdom.
( the land of cheesesteaks)
If you don’t have a good caliper, pick up a cheap sheet metal gauge at your local hardware store, Harbor Freight, etc. The cheap gauge will get you close. Do not force the metal into the slot; it should slip in easily but not sloppy.
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Thank you Lord Rodney. I look for one possibly this weekend.
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In the West Kingdom you can fight in a 16 ga helm. It's just not recommended.
Where do you live again? I can link you to your Kingdom's Heavy Combat, Rapier, and Cut & Trust rules if you like.
That would be much appreciated.
I actually am not sure what my helms gauge is.
It was bought by my father on eBay. All I truelly know about it is that it's iron and isn't 1 solid ingot or piece.
How can I find out what gauge it is?
Btw I live in P.A. Eastern kingdom.
( the land of cheesesteaks)
90% sure it's a GDFB Sugarloaf, I'd need to see it up close to compare though. If so, it's 16 gauge.
http://www.kultofathena.com/product.asp?item=AB1340 (http://www.kultofathena.com/product.asp?item=AB1340)
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That would be much appreciated.
Btw I live in P.A. Eastern kingdom.
From here: http://www.eastkingdom.org/Martial.html (http://www.eastkingdom.org/Martial.html)
Heavy- http://marshal.eastkingdom.org/ (http://marshal.eastkingdom.org/) & http://marshal.eastkingdom.org/fighters.html (http://marshal.eastkingdom.org/fighters.html)
Rapier- http://rapier.eastkingdom.org/ (http://rapier.eastkingdom.org/) & http://rapier.eastkingdom.org/index.php/rules-page (http://rapier.eastkingdom.org/index.php/rules-page)
If you like I can link you to some FB lists regarding SCA combat.
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For a helmet dont go thinner than 14g. It will get dented...and it might ring your bell more than necessary. I personally am going for a 12g top and 13g sides bascinet and it cost about 150 plus shipping...blackened with a hinged visor. Accdntprone on the Armor Archive makes cheap starter SCA helms while you save up for a nice $350+ helm. He also makes a great helm with brass cross for about 225 which is nice!
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In the West Kingdom you can fight in a 16 ga helm. It's just not recommended.
Where do you live again? I can link you to your Kingdom's Heavy Combat, Rapier, and Cut & Trust rules if you like.
That would be much appreciated.
I actually am not sure what my helms gauge is.
It was bought by my father on eBay. All I truelly know about it is that it's iron and isn't 1 solid ingot or piece.
How can I find out what gauge it is?
Btw I live in P.A. Eastern kingdom.
( the land of cheesesteaks)
90% sure it's a GDFB Sugarloaf, I'd need to see it up close to compare though. If so, it's 16 gauge.
http://www.kultofathena.com/product.asp?item=AB1340 (http://www.kultofathena.com/product.asp?item=AB1340)
It's similar to mine but not the same.That would be much appreciated.
Btw I live in P.A. Eastern kingdom.
From here: http://www.eastkingdom.org/Martial.html (http://www.eastkingdom.org/Martial.html)
Heavy- http://marshal.eastkingdom.org/ (http://marshal.eastkingdom.org/) & http://marshal.eastkingdom.org/fighters.html (http://marshal.eastkingdom.org/fighters.html)
Rapier- http://rapier.eastkingdom.org/ (http://rapier.eastkingdom.org/) & http://rapier.eastkingdom.org/index.php/rules-page (http://rapier.eastkingdom.org/index.php/rules-page)
If you like I can link you to some FB lists regarding SCA combat.
Thank you thorsteinn.
No need for the FB links.
[/quote]For a helmet dont go thinner than 14g. It will get dented...and it might ring your bell more than necessary. I personally am going for a 12g top and 13g sides bascinet and it cost about 150 plus shipping...blackened with a hinged visor. Accdntprone on the Armor Archive makes cheap starter SCA helms while you save up for a nice $350+ helm. He also makes a great helm with brass cross for about 225 which is nice!
Wow really!
Armor archive you say?
I'll take a look
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Here is an example of the helms he makes:
Spangen helm with Ocular ($150)
http://forums.armourarchive.org/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=168663 (http://forums.armourarchive.org/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=168663)
Spangen helm w/o Ocular ($115)
http://forums.armourarchive.org/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=168728 (http://forums.armourarchive.org/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=168728)
Blackened Greathelm with Cross ($225 i think?)
http://forums.armourarchive.org/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=169000 (http://forums.armourarchive.org/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=169000)
Assorted Greathelms and Sugarloafs ($150-225)
http://forums.armourarchive.org/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=168066 (http://forums.armourarchive.org/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=168066)
Mongolianish Helm with Drape ($250)
http://forums.armourarchive.org/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=168658&p=2566762#p2566762 (http://forums.armourarchive.org/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=168658&p=2566762#p2566762)
His blackened bascinet I can't seem to find on AA but he told me about it via FB and its 150 and has a center hinge grill.
Again not living history stuff or nice finish but great solid helmet you can fight safely in!
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Danke