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Main => The Armoury => Topic started by: Sir William on 2013-05-23, 13:23:15
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This isn't everything mind you, just what I could gather together for an impromptu layout- as Sir Wolf has waved the ban hammer menacingly in my direction, so here goes. ;)
New crest by Jeremy O'neail (sp)
(http://i670.photobucket.com/albums/vv64/ebonpaladin/Armor/IMG_0347_zpsf3eb086e.jpg)
Splint arms and legs by WCA, pauldrons by MT (the leather's dark blue, pauldrons have been blued)
(http://i670.photobucket.com/albums/vv64/ebonpaladin/Armor/IMG_0346_zpsad647127.jpg)
The back of the splint stuff
(http://i670.photobucket.com/albums/vv64/ebonpaladin/Armor/IMG_0345_zps4c4af0f9.jpg)
WTC Coat of plates and brig gorget
(http://i670.photobucket.com/albums/vv64/ebonpaladin/Armor/IMG_0342_zpsb9b24051.jpg)
Back of the CoP and gorget
(http://i670.photobucket.com/albums/vv64/ebonpaladin/Armor/IMG_0344_zps1764e876.jpg)
New gonfalon by Dirk and Arrow in case you haven't seen it
(http://i670.photobucket.com/albums/vv64/ebonpaladin/Armor/SirWilliamGonfalon_zpsdcb47e9d.jpg)
And my shield by Oakheart Armory, in case you haven't seen that
(http://i670.photobucket.com/albums/vv64/ebonpaladin/Armor/ShieldoftheBlackKnight_zps5eaf193a.jpg)
I won't bother mentioning the other stuff til I can take pics of it.
Glossary of terms
WTC = Winter Tree Crafts, a VT based armory
WCA = West Coast Armory, a CA based armory
MT = Mercenary's Tailor, an upstate NY based armory (no longer 'open' for business, but you can still catch the odd sale from him; if you see him on AA (AL) posting something for sale and it'll fit you- buy it. You won't be sorry.)
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Nice stuff!! I particularly like that CoP. Now put it all on and take pics... or.... wait for it.... BAN!
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Nice stuff!! I particularly like that CoP. Now put it all on and take pics... or.... wait for it.... BAN!
Seconded. Nice stuff Sir William. :) I love the 'bluing' but it works better for your attire than mine as I tried. Black paint worked better and was less time consuming. WCA offers good pricing for their splinted armor. The Wisby CoP you have is style #1 & looks really good. I bought a kit & did my own. Came out good too. :)
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Thanks, Dane. I've been slowly (and quietly) acquiring this stuff over the last six months or so.
Nice stuff!! I particularly like that CoP. Now put it all on and take pics... or.... wait for it.... BAN!
I need help with it, believe it or not; tried setting it and pulling it on like a t-shirt and nothing doing. Plus, I can't take pics of myself w/out that full length mirror a la Sir James. Maybe someone'll snap a few at VARF next weekend, depending on what I go with. If its real hot then it'll be the maille hauberk, chausses (KoA) and plate bits at shoulders, elbows and knees (all MT). I'm hoping my VL boots show up too otherwise I won't be able to go with chausses and I'll need to put holes in my cavalier boots to accept the knees. Legs need work too as I've got to mate them up with my cuisse belt (Pitbull) and see if those lacings w/aglets (Historic enterprises) are going to fit the bill. I'm hoping to use that cuisse belt for the maille chausses as well as the splint legs; the splint legs won't debut in my kit til the fall, when my surcoat, torse & mantle and helm are done. I may get rid of the current splint setup, I dunno yet. I'm not in love w/them.
Have thought of using them with the CoP as a generic man-at-arms as a backup in the event my stuff's not finished.
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Awesome! That crest looks insanely cool. Can't wait to see it!
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That's a great looking kit there Sir William! I've always been a fan of the splint/studded transitional armor.
I really like the blueing. WCA definitely makes some nice stuff. My buddies around me put the legs on first, followed by the COP, followed by the arms. The COP is definitely something that takes time and practice to get on by yourself. ;D I was spinning around like a drunken monkey my first try!
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ok ok no ban for you. FOR ONLY ONE MONTH. that stuff is awesome. i can't wait till it's all together. now you REALLY need greaves. no kit looks more unfinished to me then one that does not have greaves.
man so cool! so happy for your armour goodness
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Looking nice, I like the coat of plates especially. I want to see it all together fully armored.
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Sir James, thanks- that isn't even the helm it goes on as I'm waiting on that to get back to me. I think its really going to rock but there's things missing- it won't be ready til MDRF but I can wait. I think it's going to be pretty awesome- and as complete a kit as I've ever put together.
ok ok no ban for you. FOR ONLY ONE MONTH. that stuff is awesome. i can't wait till it's all together. now you REALLY need greaves. no kit looks more unfinished to me then one that does not have greaves.
man so cool! so happy for your armour goodness
Yea, the lack of greaves is glaring- but not so bad when I'm wearing the admittedly anachronistic tall boots. So should they be plate greaves or splint, and if splint, does it matter whether those splints or internal or external?
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i would get to match if it were me, but i've seen effigies where they were different.
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Nice components, Sir William. I really like that crest!
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Got an armoured up pic?
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Not yet. Working on it, though.
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Very cool, Sir William! I can't wait to see it all together!
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I've seen effigies where they're all sorts of mixed and matched, which can be cool in its own right. But since your arms and legs look dashing as a matched set, I'd match up the greaves as well.
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Thanks, Silvanus. Patricius- was thinking that I like exposed strips on the lower extremities...but I need them either way. :)
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Sir William,
to play devil's advocate 8) as I often do, lol
have you considered both? :o it'd be fairly easy, especially in an easier gauge like 18 or less, to add strips between the studs on the exterior? You could do that just to your bracers and have your greaves made up that way. It'd be awesomesauce. To be honest, it's my favorite transitional kit.
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/2b/Guenther_von_schwarzburg.jpg/220px-Guenther_von_schwarzburg.jpg)
(http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQ3Z6XLA1K7TnlI4dqSSEjch8lp26ao2tNcOHf9AT2jhXRQ-ah_)
;)
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I vote for blued plate schynbalds from Allan :)
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I vote for blued plate schynbalds from Allan :)
Seconded, that would look really awesome with the splint cuisses. Even though they wouldn't also be splint, they'd be appropriate, and would really compliment the splint look being blued.
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hmmmmmmm coolness
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Yea? Huh. To think I had a pair but sold them. Like an idiot it would seem as they'd come right in handy. I'll see if I can't talk him into doing me up a set. Wouldn't need it til August anyway.
You think I should go blued over the regular satin finish? I only ask because all of the plate bits that you can see are satin.
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You think I should go blued over the regular satin finish? I only ask because all of the plate bits that you can see are satin.
The knee and elbow cops are satin, but the limbs are blue leather, so I'd match up with blued steel for that.
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Cool, just wanted to be sure I'd read that right.
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Awesome acquisitions! I'm really anxious to see the whole harness together! :)
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As am I...just got word from Allan that they've shipped- I went ahead and got a pair in satin finish for a more simplified kit that I'm putting together.
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As am I...just got word from Allan that they've shipped- I went ahead and got a pair in satin finish for a more simplified kit that I'm putting together.
Excellent, so now that you have the satin ones, order a blackened pair too ;)
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But wait...I'll have both! :)
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But wait...I'll have both! :)
That's always the best solution!
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I would get a third set to give to a friend and demonstrate to all your knightly largesse! ;D
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Ach, you wound me, Sir Brian- you know how much I love my knightly family! Such demonstrations would only cheapen the emotive aspect.
:)
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Ach, you wound me, Sir Brian- you know how much I love my knightly family! Such demonstrations would only cheapen the emotive aspect.
:)
Good parry Sir! ;)
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I wanted a pair of Merc Tailor front greaves, but I would have to measure them over padded and mailled chausses. Maybe I should message Al about it because I'm sure wearing them over my chausses would make them easier to put on. I already got the knee cops and elbow cops from him through sheer luck.
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Ach, you wound me, Sir Brian- you know how much I love my knightly family! Such demonstrations would only cheapen the emotive aspect.
:)
You are right, Sir William. We'll accept the 3rd as a gift on your behalf to illustrate this love. :)
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I wanted a pair of Merc Tailor front greaves, but I would have to measure them over padded and mailled chausses. Maybe I should message Al about it because I'm sure wearing them over my chausses would make them easier to put on. I already got the knee cops and elbow cops from him through sheer luck.
I'd drop him a line...wearing your leggings as well as your chausses, take your measurements from knee to the top of your foot, around the calf and the ankles and see what he says. He just built me two pairs of the front greaves, one blued.
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I wanted a pair of Merc Tailor front greaves, but I would have to measure them over padded and mailled chausses. Maybe I should message Al about it because I'm sure wearing them over my chausses would make them easier to put on. I already got the knee cops and elbow cops from him through sheer luck.
I'd drop him a line...wearing your leggings as well as your chausses, take your measurements from knee to the top of your foot, around the calf and the ankles and see what he says. He just built me two pairs of the front greaves, one blued.
:o 8)
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Yes, it is in fact your fault, my good Brother!
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Yes, it is in fact your fault, my good Brother!
You can thank me later. :D
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lol
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I wanted a pair of Merc Tailor front greaves, but I would have to measure them over padded and mailled chausses. Maybe I should message Al about it because I'm sure wearing them over my chausses would make them easier to put on. I already got the knee cops and elbow cops from him through sheer luck.
I'd drop him a line...wearing your leggings as well as your chausses, take your measurements from knee to the top of your foot, around the calf and the ankles and see what he says. He just built me two pairs of the front greaves, one blued.
I just sent him a message on facebook about it. I hope he replies because I rather like the look of those plate greaves and I DONT think they would be out of place for late 1200s early 1300s. They DID have early coat of plates by 1250 AD but most of them were worn UNDER the hauberk which leads them to be hidden, I dont think it would be out of place to have plate front greaves by 1300 AD which is the era I am currently doing.
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You're absolutely right, Ulrich- plate front greaves, or schynbalds if you prefer, are perfectly acceptable for 13thC onwards (1200AD on). You'll need them to your measurements, though- if you don't tell him, he'll build it according to his measurements and he's a bit taller and heavier than you are.
Do you have a reference or link for the statement
They DID have early coat of plates by 1250 AD but most of them were worn UNDER the hauberk which leads them to be hidden
- I ask because I'd love to read about that. That is not to say I disbelieve you, just that I have never heard that in the research tomes I've bothered to crack so it is of interest to say the least. It would also seem to be counterproductive, as maille's strength is that it conforms to the body and not the other way around; having something as hard and unyielding as steel beneath it would (and this is just my humble opinion) render at least some of maille's protective properties moot.
I am sure one of my more learned brethren will correct me if I'm wrong.
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http://www.myarmoury.com/talk/viewtopic.php?t=28317 (http://www.myarmoury.com/talk/viewtopic.php?t=28317)
I read it there, there was also this norwegian dude who posted stuff about coat of plates being worn under a hauberk, usually it was just a bunch of plates riveted to cloth or leather that did not overlap and the maille over it stopped your enemies from thrusting between the plates. Thats why I think they didnt just make shirts of plates riveted to cloth or leather instead of maille. The chinese I know did make brigandines of that similar type for their soldiers in the roman era, but with a thrusting weapon you could easily thrust in between the plates, sure it's easier to make but maille seems more effective as a defense.
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Well, it is actually quite easy to thrust into maille...how far you'll get depends on the quality of the rings, the pointiness of the weapon and the supporting garments under the hauberk, if by itself.
One common misconception is that maille armor will stop this or that sort of blow- I find that it is more likely to have been a preventive measure, one that obviously helped, but wasn't by itself a guarantee...think of it more as a way to leverage the odds of survival more in your favor than going w/out armor.
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Very nice Sir William. The splinted armour looks great.
G.
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Early plate armor like a CoP (attached to leather) was best over or in unison with rivoted maille and a thickly-padded gambeson. Then if you added plate armored pieces such as 3/4 arms, legs/greaves, spaulders, gorget, etc., I think that made the most of a transitional armor kit for the 1300's. Asian Lamellar & Roman Lorica Segmentatas utilized the overlayed plate system very effectively in their peak periods.
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Thank you, Sir Gerard...it looks even better when all put together, just haven't snapped any pics yet. But I will! ;)
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Well, it is actually quite easy to thrust into maille...how far you'll get depends on the quality of the rings, the pointiness of the weapon and the supporting garments under the hauberk, if by itself.
One common misconception is that maille armor will stop this or that sort of blow- I find that it is more likely to have been a preventive measure, one that obviously helped, but wasn't by itself a guarantee...think of it more as a way to leverage the odds of survival more in your favor than going w/out armor.
I don't want to derail the thread completely, but once I finally got my grubby gauntlets on some actual period mail... Our 9mm indian repro stuff, the Albion Talhoffer blasts through like butter. I got to feel some 5.4mm period mail, and I will say, it would take a lot of effort to get through that. Certainly possible, but almost like threading a needle. And it's every bit as flexible as the 9mm is; and moreso at the joints, as it has less bulk when flexed.
This is one of the pieces I got to handle: http://www.allenantiques.com/M-15.html (http://www.allenantiques.com/M-15.html)
The inner diameter of the rings, when accounting for the thickness of the 4 rings also passing through it - that piece of period mail is about half the size of the opening in the 9mm mail. It's small rings, but it's not the smallest they made, either. Check this one out:
http://www.allenantiques.com/M-5.html (http://www.allenantiques.com/M-5.html)
The 1/8" converted to mm is a little over 3mm. Yes, 1/3 the size of the opening of the 9mm stuff most of us have. I'd wager even a reinforced tip rondel would be a chore to punch through it with. Regardless, still easier than trying to stab through plate! :)
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I've used 9MM maille against knives and stuff, actually the wedge riveted with solid links is pretty decent at deflecting blows especially the solid links, as is the GDFB dome riveted stuff. The Icefalcon maille seems thinner and more prone to failure but it's lighter. My coif I refuse to even test out because if I damage the links I have nothing to replace it with. I would assume it's as good as period maille if not better because it's tough stuff. Sure it's small links that are around 17-18 gauge but it's probably tougher than Indian stuff. But it all depends on quality, indian round riveted is weaker because they punch the material away, wedge riveted just uses a drift to push stuff away similar to period maille, even period dome riveted maille used a drift rather than a punch and the rivets were often cone shaped rather than mushroom shaped like modern repro maille. I'd have to dig up the article again, it was some translated norwegian article on maille and it showed how the links looked, it even had some original maille chausses in the article which were tie in the back types, they even had bigger rings to link them together, which could explain the teeth on the period art of laced chausses.